Nathan Chen's 4Lz, 4F-3T attempt

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 10, 2016

chuckm said:
Max is a fine jumper, but that is where his success begins and ends. Despite his tries at Swan Lake and Turandot, he isn't really much of a musical interpreter. And when his jumps fail him, he drops like a rock in international competition because his PCS scores aren't great even when he lands all his jumps. I do like his Lion King program, because there isn't that huge contrast between the soaring music of Tschaikovsky and Puccini and Max's lack of finesse in his non-jump moves.

I think this explains why there is excitement for Nathan and not Max. With Max I feel like even if he hits the jumps, over both programs he gives up 20-30 points in PCS to the top men so he won't ever be able to make up the difference. With Nathan, he might be able to close the PCS gap a bit but, more importantly, his BV can make up the a lot of the PCS difference. I don't think Max could have skated as sloppy a program as Nathan and beaten Chan last weekend.

topaz emerald · Oct 10, 2016

da96103 said:
Max only has a quad sal, right? I don't remember seeing any 4T in his programs.

I may be wrong, but I only recall him doing a 4sal (have to rewatch his programs again)...maybe he attempted a 4toe before, but the landing but off.....bue t I'm glad he can at least land a 4sal with ease. I really liked he swan lake program but somewhere in the choreography, I burst out laughing when in the middle on the ice, he skated towards the judges flapping his arms really hard, first on his right, and then left arm, lol!!

ok, here is the video, look at 1:44 - 1:48 mark, where he flaps both arms, lol, it's so funny! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by5HbcbifKo, but he did a good job. He also did it at the 2016 nationals, but he didn't flap them as hard.

I just watched nathan's lp at nationals 2016 where he did 4 quads....I think Nathan is very capable of doing any quad jump, but in this video, he obviously needs work on his triple axel....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csa8fKd7e8o, that's if doing the triple axel is a MUST, for example, Yuna never did the loop jump and substituted 2 axel jumps instead, and it was totally fine, so I wonder if it's the same in the men's field. If I compare his 2016 nationals LP to his short program now at finlandia, Nathan has made vast improvements artistically, he's moving his head more, and his upper body and arms....just the way he moves them now reminds me of a man ballerina, it's sharp yet graceful looking. His footwork has speed and sharpness too. If he can remain injury free and continue to improve, it will be a good thing for US men's skating.

I'd like to add how much I enjoyed Ross Miner's program 2015 LP program https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qigKrhQHbKQ......I first saw him skate at Cup of Russia and loved his music and his sense of musicality....he just doesn't have a quad, although in this program he nearly got the 4sal...... or else I'd be rooting for him so much in the US men's field.....

StitchMonkey · Oct 10, 2016

topaz emerald said:
well good for jason then....i admit i have not seen his recent skating.

oh okay, I am talking about hsi recent finlandia competition but I really liked his SP, very impressed by him artistically more so than his jumps, but very glad he's attempting them, that's what you got to do in the men's field to stay competitive.

Objectively his 4T is improving. It was DG in the SP of his first comp but got that to a UR at his second comp a week later. And in both his free skates he was given full rotation for his 4T attempts. He did fall on all attempts, but he still has a 50% rate of at least rotating it - which is much better than some others and is damn promising. He has been seen landing them at event practices and runthroughs and in the 6 minute warmup. Jason has also got positive GOE on 5/6 3As this season and popped one.

He also still has the season best free skating score for men. http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2016-17/sbtsmfs.htm

His total season best is also the third highest of the season behind Shoma and Hanyu.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2016-17/sbtsmto.htm

His coach has also confirmed he is landing 4S in practice... she would not say when he is planning to add it, but i got the impression she wants to add it in soon... likely as soon as he lands a clean 4T.

Jason is not slacking this season or resting on his reputation. He is fighting too and moving in the right direction. I honestly think by nationals he will have at least a stable 4T in both programs. I don't think a "quadless" Jason is likely to be going to worlds this year.

topaz emerald · Oct 10, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
Objectively his 4T is improving. It was DG in the SP of his first comp but got that to a UR at his second comp a week later. And in both his free skates he was given full rotation for his 4T attempts. He did fall on all attempts, but he still has a 50% rate of at least rotating it - which is much better than some others and is damn promising. He has been seen landing them at event practices and runthroughs and in the 6 minute warmup. Jason has also got positive GOE on 5/6 3As this season and popped one.

He also still has the season best free skating score for men. http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2016-17/sbtsmfs.htm

His total season best is also the third highest of the season behind Shoma and Hanyu.
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2016-17/sbtsmto.htm

His coach has also confirmed he is landing 4S in practice... she would not say when he is planning to add it, but i got the impression she wants to add it in soon... likely as soon as he lands a clean 4T.

Jason is not slacking this season or resting on his reputation. He is fighting too and moving in the right direction. I honestly think by nationals he will have at least a stable 4T in both programs. I don't think a "quadless" Jason is likely to be going to worlds this year.

thanks, that's really good to hear....I will watch his videos now and be back to make comments on Jason.

ok, just watched two of his recent skates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSDDWBT0tRA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCnkLtfeLCk

I admit, I have not seen his skating in a long time, but I'm not sure why that is....wasn't he injured for quite a while, I'm not sure. But I remember him when he debut as a senior or was it junior, I think it was at US nationals when he first started out. I recall he had a lot of trouble with his triple axel jump, and I just remember never seeing him do any quad jump even in competition, so even if he did a perfect competition internationally, he couldn't get on the podium. But now after watching his recent skate, I can see improvement in his triple axel jump, and at least he is trying the quads, it's better than not trying, in my opinion. I love his LP music, the one at lombardia. He's always moved well and was musical, but I would add that this lp music requires a LOT of feeling, so I would say he should give more emotion in his face as I think it would only add to his lovely performance. I didn't really like his short program music, but he has lovely arms and upper body movement. Maybe he should try something jazzy in his short....this year's short program music feels similar to his lp music, except the lp music is so so good, so emotional, that's why he should give more face and do something about his hair. But he is definitely moving in the right direction.

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 10, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
Jason is not slacking this season or resting on his reputation. He is fighting too and moving in the right direction. I honestly think by nationals he will have at least a stable 4T in both programs. I don't think a "quadless" Jason is likely to be going to worlds this year.

Jason can't rest on his reputation. I agree that any "quadless" skaters is unlikely to make the world team. There are too many men on the international scene that are now attempting two (or more) different quads. The international judges are rewarding that difficulty. It no longer makes sense for the USFSA to boost quadless men onto the podium based on PCS when guys who attempt the difficult elements at least have a chance to compete internationally.

Skater Boy · Oct 10, 2016

4everchan said:
oyyyy

i usually am excited when i see threads "so and so" attempts (such and such jump)...

but if it has Nathan Chen on the title, i have goose bumps... it scares me... such a young age and already a major injury...

I think he should be patient, and aim for in 6 years.. yes... I have said so... the chances to make the olympic podium in 2018 are slim for him as he hasn't even been to a senior WC etc... etc... rebuild, heal, stay calm and collected, do not overwork yourself... etc.. .that would be my advice... YET... if he is fully healed and coaches/trainors/doctors think it is safe for him to do those jumps, then I respect that too...

I just worry....

regarding the 4F... i wonder why Patrick doesn't try it... his 3F is one of the most beautifully perfect and easy jump ever...

I don't think Patrick has the stamina to land that many quads. I do wonder though if there is going to be an event where a top skater like Chen, Umo, Boyang, Hanyu pops a bunch of jumps and doesn't qualify to skate the freeskate. Then maybe there will be a rethink. It is exciting and scaring the quad push. Plushy is not even in the equation even if young and healthy these boys are doing so many difficult and different quads I am wondering if th is is really what COP or IJS intended. The programs look similar and the focus is on the jumps more than ever.

Skater Boy · Oct 10, 2016

Nathan is amazing I totally agree. It must be his young age but he is doing quad flips after a major injury. I did not expect such a fast and miraculous recovery. Compare that to Yuko. The power of youth.

4everchan · Oct 10, 2016

Skater Boy said:
I don't think Patrick has the stamina to land that many quads.

Skater boy, all i was saying is that Patrick's 3F looks so good usually that perhaps, while he is chasing the 3S, it would be wise to try the 4F...

that's all...

Patrick has been clear : he will not put in more than 3 quads in his FP as he finds that more than that prevents him from having a real program with enough choreography as setting up for so many quads takes up a whole lot of time. (as we have seen in Nathan's 5 quads program this weekend..... quad galore yes... crossover galore, also yes)

mcq · Oct 10, 2016

4everchan said:
Skater boy, all i was saying is that Patrick's 3F looks so good usually that perhaps, while he is chasing the 3S, it would be wise to try the 4F... that's all...

I was wondering the same thing, since I know he could land 4F in practice before and I always look at him as more of a toepick-jumper than an edge-jumper (and 4F worths more than 4S). Maybe his 4S is more consistent in practice then :think:

Actually beside Patrick I think Nathan, Shoma and Boyang is more of a toepick-jumper too.

chuckm · Oct 10, 2016

Finlandia was the first time Nathan performed his programs in INTERNATIONAL competition, and even though they were flawed, he did win. His first GP event is TDF, more than a month away, so I expect his performances --and his artistry---will improve quite a bit by then. OTOH, Chan has only two weeks to prepare for SC, and I somehow doubt he will have 3 quads in his FS by then. But he will probably win anyway---it's Skate Canada, after all.

topaz emerald · Oct 10, 2016

Skater Boy said:
I don't think Patrick has the stamina to land that many quads. I do wonder though if there is going to be an event where a top skater like Chen, Umo, Boyang, Hanyu pops a bunch of jumps and doesn't qualify to skate the freeskate. Then maybe there will be a rethink. It is exciting and scaring the quad push. Plushy is not even in the equation even if young and healthy these boys are doing so many difficult and different quads I am wondering if th is is really what COP or IJS intended. The programs look similar and the focus is on the jumps more than ever.

I don't think they will rethink the quads unless most of the men can't do it...but it seems a lot of them can, or the ones that can land them 50% of the time is capapble of landing a good one.

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 10, 2016

A bit off topic, but was there any reason Nathan didn't have costumes this weekend? It seems like he would have wanted to in an event in which he's up against the likes of Patrick.

topaz emerald · Oct 10, 2016

drivingmissdaisy said:
A bit off topic, but was there any reason Nathan didn't have costumes this weekend? It seems like he would have wanted to in an event in which he's up against the likes of Patrick.

I like his black outfit for his sp program....but I think he needs a new outfit for his lp music.

4everchan · Oct 10, 2016

Patrick is definitely a toe pick jumper. Yuzuru and javi are better edge jumpers. I think at least.

mcq said:
I was wondering the same thing, since I know he could land 4F in practice before and I always look at him as more of a toepick-jumper than an edge-jumper (and 4F worths more than 4S). Maybe his 4S is more consistent in practice then :think:

Actually beside Patrick I think Nathan, Shoma and Boyang is more of a toepick-jumper too.

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 10, 2016

topaz emerald said:
I like his black outfit for his sp program....but I think he needs a new outfit for his lp music.

I thought he looked like a jewel thief in both programs.

Mango · Oct 10, 2016

topaz emerald said:
if you are a true competitor, you want to beat the best.

That's not the only thing you should want to do. You should also want to do your best. Yuzuru didn't get to breaking world records by just wishing to beat everyone else. He wished to go clean, perform everything as originally choreographed. Javier won Worlds 2016 by doing the same in the FS.

chuckm said:
Finlandia was the first time Nathan performed his programs in competition, and even though they were flawed, he did win. His first GP event is TDF, more than a month away, so I expect his performances --and his artistry---will improve quite a bit by then. OTOH, Chan has only two weeks to prepare for SC, and I somehow doubt he will have 3 quads in his FS by then. But he will probably win anyway---it's Skate Canada, after all.

Not true. Nathan performed at Golden West. This thread was created because of his performance at that competition. Have you forgotten? Chan is looking to add a 4S for Skate Canada so there is a very real possibility he may do it. Do you honestly think he was waiting for Finlandia to end to start practising quad Salchows? He was doing them in practices in Finland too. There is no reason to assume he's going to win Skate Canada, even if the event is in Canada. He's lost Skate Canada to Javier before. He may have lost to Yuzuru as well if the Zayak rule wasn't so harsh last year and Yuzuru landed his 3Lz in the FS.

4everchan · Oct 10, 2016

And Patrick says his 4s is at 3/5 attempts. He will only bring it to the competition when it's at 4/5. Also, anyone looking at his LP from finlandia can tell that he's serious about the 4s since he's put a placeholder 3s in the first bit of the program.

topaz emerald · Oct 10, 2016

Mango said:
That's not the only thing you should want to do. You should also want to do your best. Yuzuru didn't get to breaking world records by just wishing to beat everyone else. He wished to go clean, perform everything as originally choreographed. Javier won Worlds 2016 by doing the same in the FS.

Not true. Nathan performed at Golden West. This thread was created because of his performance at that competition. Have you forgotten? Chan is looking to add a 4S for Skate Canada so there is a very real possibility he may do it. Do you honestly think he was waiting for Finlandia to end to start practising quad Salchows? He was doing them in practices in Finland too. There is no reason to assume he's going to win Skate Canada, even if the event is in Canada. He's lost Skate Canada to Javier before. He may have lost to Yuzuru as well if the Zayak rule wasn't so harsh last year and Yuzuru landed his 3Lz in the FS.

a true competitor wants to do his best and wants to beat the best.

mcq · Oct 10, 2016

4everchan said:
Patrick is definitely a toe pick jumper. Yuzuru and javi are better edge jumpers. I think at least.

Yep. I think so too. Was quite surprised that he did 4S instead of 4F when I heard he is adding a new quad, since if my memory is correct he once mentioned that he was reluctant to do 4S before, because it hurt his ankle or something. Since he is doing it now, I assume it is no longer a problem then. :biggrin:

Skater Boy · Oct 10, 2016

drivingmissdaisy said:
I thought he looked like a jewel thief in both programs.

Well black is slimming and netural. But if he does like a jewl thief watch out topaz emerald you are a double sitting jewel. lol

Nathan Chen's 4Lz, 4F-3T attempt

drivingmissdaisy

topaz emerald

Match Penalty

StitchMonkey

topaz emerald

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

Skater Boy

Skater Boy

4everchan

mcq

chuckm

topaz emerald

Match Penalty

drivingmissdaisy

topaz emerald

Match Penalty

4everchan

drivingmissdaisy

Mango

Royal Chinet 👑🍽️

4everchan

topaz emerald

Match Penalty

mcq

Skater Boy

Similar threads

Connect with us