Do costumes augment or detract?

jenm · Sep 24, 2016

Amei said:
All that dress color could symbolize to me was baby puke.

Haven't seen a chartreuse baby puke before but okay.

I love Yuna's Send in the Clowns dress. It was very distinct and the detailing is the most gorgeous I've ever seen on dresses with that design. I mean, several other skaters like Mao, Yulia, and Evgenia actually wore costumes that look like that but none had the intricacy of Yuna's dress IMO.

Mathman · Sep 24, 2016

petitebrie said:
Then you have colour symbolism like Yuna's dress to Send in the Clowns – yellow often represents envy, jealousy and cowardice, but also joy and hope, like in the song.

jenm said:
I love Yuna's Send in the Clowns dress. It was very distinct and thedetailing is the most gorgeous I've ever seen on dresses with that design. I mean, several other skaters like Mao, Yulia, and Evgenia actually wore costumes that look like that but none had the intricacy of Yuna's dress IMO.

I agree about the detailing.

But the color is tricky. In the U.S., the color yellow has negative associations ("yellow-bellied"), although envy and jealousy are more green than yellow. Throughout Asia (Asian posters please correct this if I am wrong

), and especially in China, yellow is a very positive color signifying good luck, heath, wealth and royalty. (If your name is Huang, Wong, etc., you are Mr. or Ms. Yellow.)

I don't think there is any association of the color yellow with sadness, regret, etc., which are the focus of Send in the Clowns. So in this case, although Yuna was never lovelier :love:

, I don't think that the dress served the program as well as blue or violet would have.

Or for that matter, this. Come on, give it a chance. "Isn't it rich?…"

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ligchsd3l21qeh41y.jpg

ice coverage · Sep 24, 2016

Mathman said:
... (If your name is Huang, Wong, etc., you are Mr. or Ms. Yellow.) ...

Not necessarily.
The transliteration of Wong, for example, can be and is used for other Chinese characters with completely different meanings. (Other than the one that would be translated as "yellow".)

ordinary person · Sep 25, 2016

noskates said:
tights that are not skin tone, panties that don't fit and their butt is hanging out

You do know that if you wear skin tone tights, you always see bare looking butts hanging out no matter how well the briefs fit.
The whole reason why we wear tights that aren't skin tone under short skirts/dresses is to make our butt and crotch a lot less distracting and keep our legs warm (specifically when it's freezing), otherwise it would be pretty much pointless.

Take a look below, there never was any skin tone on the legs to begin with.

1860's

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ed/57/d5/ed57d510569dfe36063bc27c1e5415e7.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/21/3b/be/213bbeb2261511c45a4adc43a8ca469d.jpg

1870's

http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/ObjView/I-45605.1.jpg

http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/ObjView/I-45607.1.jpg

1880's

http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/w1600/pict/361630462393_/SNOW-SCENES-3-Victorian-Cards-1880s.jpg

http://thumbs2.picclick.com/d/w1600...ton-Brown-Shoe-Cos-Girls-Ice-Skating-Doll.jpg

1890's

http://thegraphicsfairy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/IceSkateGirlVintageGraphicsFairy1.jpg

1900's

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fSbzFQB5i...4BWWxA/s1600/walter+ja+ludovika+jakobsson.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-J6nwgAbuV3c/U7Zyt-kjLbI/AAAAAAAAAbY/Gi9c1_QCiDo/s1600/3622_019.jpg

1910's

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z0bbNMl79...y-horvath-zsofia-in-browne-skating-primer.jpg

Even in the 1930's when skin tone tights were quite popular we don't always see skaters wear it.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/de/39/b5/de39b51918faa5ae04542fe83491567b.jpg

http://olympteka.ru/images/subevent/big/1133_31698715911058.jpg

http://skating30s.narod.ru/photo/photo/24.jpg

The only question i have is why would you hate tights that aren't skin tone when nobody wore those kind of tights/stockings over a hundred years ago for decades?
Also you know this is a winter sport right? :rolleye:

OS · Sep 25, 2016

Mathman said:
I agree about the detailing.

But the color is tricky. In the U.S., the color yellow has negative associations ("yellow-bellied"), although envy and jealousy are more green than yellow. Throughout Asia (Asian posters please correct this if I am wrong ), and especially in China, yellow is a very positive color signifying good luck, heath, wealth and royalty. (If your name is Huang, Wong, etc., you are Mr. or Ms. Yellow.)

I don't think there is any association of the color yellow with sadness, regret, etc., which are the focus of Send in the Clowns. So in this case, although Yuna was never lovelier , I don't think that the dress served the program as well as blue or violet would have.

Or for that matter, this. Come on, give it a chance. "Isn't it rich?…"

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ligchsd3l21qeh41y.jpg

Yellow in Ancient China is the colour of the Emperor, and the colour used to be forbidden for the commoners because of it. Or you can check out this Wiki.

In anycase, the send in the clown costume is Chartreuse, colour of Chanel 19 or cover girl such as these

Figure skating has become sort heritage of sport of sort (like dressage, polo, tennis) that relies on 'human judging' and with it the inherent cultural factor that comes with it as much as we try to broaden the landscape. Costumes will always be an intergral part of this multidisciplinary competition of 'presentation' as long as music, makeup and performance is still part of the 'sport', and they always must be part of the cohesive experience for the observer, as much as musical sensitivity and drama.

noskates · Sep 25, 2016

Watch Kaetlyn Osmond some time and you'll see exactly what I mean. As for tights that aren't skintone, black tights under a dress. Add that to white skates and it looks pretty silly to me.

senatormls · Sep 25, 2016

Hello and a happy autumn to all! I saw many of these Russian test skates and first, all competitions, whether they are summer classics to the Olympic Games, should have all contestants in a costume or appropriate attire. No practice sessions leotards or leg warmers,etc, please! Costumes give impact and feedback to the judges, not only with how the costume relates to the choreography of a program but also the skater's attitude. What would a warm-up outfit say to me from a new World Champion? A LOT! Is she ready? Is she taking her new position in world standings for granted? Oh I'm World Champion and I can wear whatever I want! Judges also watch practice sessions as well. Just out of bed outfits say a lot about a person's attitude and mood.
A good costume affects interpretation. Think back to Karakami's 'Papa can you hear me' LP from the movie Yentl and she had a Christian cross sewn on her dress.. the song and the movie is all Jewish! Oops!

Mathman · Sep 25, 2016

ordinary person said:
1910's

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z0bbNMl79...y-horvath-zsofia-in-browne-skating-primer.jpg

Costuming was all downhill from then.

Edited to add: Here is the full article from Skateguard about this three-time world champion. Hungarian ladies Lily von Kronberg and Opika (Zsophia) vo Meren-Horvath (featured) won seven consecutive world titles from 1908 to 1914. It would have been more, but no world championships were held from 1915 to 1921 because of World War i.

http://skateguard1.blogspot.com/2015/09/zsofia-meray-horvath-and-coffee-that.html

Even though she was probably one of the most conservatively dressed of the ladies skaters of that era, Zsófia was criticized in a 1914 issue of "The Sketch: A Journal of Art and Actuality" for her mere 'indecency' in taking part in a sporting event as a (GASP) woman!

karne · Sep 25, 2016

senatormls said:
Hello and a happy autumn to all! I saw many of these Russian test skates and first, all competitions, whether they are summer classics to the Olympic Games, should have all contestants in a costume or appropriate attire. No practice sessions leotards or leg warmers,etc, please!

What? The Russian test skates aren't a competition. They're just run-throughs in front of officials. It's like the Americans doing their skates at Champs Camp.

chuckm · Sep 25, 2016

IMO, costumes should be suitable to the body type of the wearer. In Max Aaron's case, when he wears white on top and black on the bottom, it only calls attention to the fact that his legs are short in proportion to his body.

Courtney Hicks is very short-waisted and a little on the chunky side. She often wears overly elaborate costumes that make her look much bigger than she really is, in colors that are not flattering to her.

I also do not like overly blinged costumes. Sometimes Mirai's costumes have too much glitter to be entirely tasteful. I particularly didn't like her Gatsby costume, especially the headpiece. The character of Daisy in the novel and movie would never wear a getup like that.

ice coverage · Sep 25, 2016

chuckm said:
... I also do not like overly blinged costumes. Sometimes Mirai's costumes have too much glitter to be entirely tasteful. I particularly didn't like her Gatsby costume, especially the headpiece. The character of Daisy in the novel and movie would never wear a getup like that.

But ... when Carey Mulligan played Daisy in the movie, she did wear a headpiece and costume similar to Mirai's.

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/conten...inlineimage_1.img.800.jpg/45605852.cached.jpg

Certainly similar in bling-iness.

chuckm · Sep 25, 2016

Her dress isn't a short "flapper" dress such as Mirai wore, and Mirai's headpiece was huge compared to the delicate one Carey is wearing.

ice coverage · Sep 25, 2016

chuckm said:
Her dress isn't a short "flapper" dress such as Mirai wore, and Mirai's headpiece was huge compared to the delicate one Carey is wearing.

Completely unrealistic, IMO, to expect a singles skater to wear a longer dress.
I would not expect a skater portaying Scarlett O'Hara to wear a dress as long as Vivien Leigh's costumes.

And I would not call Carey's headpiece "delicate." YMMV.

Mathman · Sep 25, 2016

chuckm said:
Her dress isn't a short "flapper" dress such as Mirai wore, and Mirai's headpiece was huge compared to the delicate one Carey is wearing.

It has to be visible to fans in the back row of the balconey.

ordinary person · Sep 25, 2016

noskates said:
Watch Kaetlyn Osmond some time and you'll see exactly what I mean. As for tights that aren't skintone, black tights under a dress. Add that to white skates and it looks pretty silly to me.

Never as silly as trying to look bare legged on the ice. I still wonder why some kind of mad simpleton came up with the idea of wearing skin tone tights in chilly/cold temperatures. :whack:

Mathman · Sep 25, 2016

ordinary person said:
I still wonder why some kind of mad simpleton came up with the idea of wearing skin tone tights in chilly/cold temperatures. :whack:

I think it was Sonja Henie.She wanted to look like a showgirl. She made 50 million dollars by showing her legs in the cold -- back in the days when $50,000,000 was some money. :yes:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/af/a1/b3afa1574e80dab81f7d02d84a70367c.jpg

Seren · Sep 25, 2016

chuckm said:
IMO, costumes should be suitable to the body type of the wearer. In Max Aaron's case, when he wears white on top and black on the bottom, it only calls attention to the fact that his legs are short in proportion to his body.

Courtney Hicks is very short-waisted and a little on the chunky side. She often wears overly elaborate costumes that make her look much bigger than she really is, in colors that are not flattering to her.

I also do not like overly blinged costumes. Sometimes Mirai's costumes have too much glitter to be entirely tasteful. I particularly didn't like her Gatsby costume, especially the headpiece. The character of Daisy in the novel and movie would never wear a getup like that.

As someone who works with eating disorder patients please do not refer to an elite and fit athlete like Courtney Hicks as "chunky". While I agree that skaters (and all of us actually) look best in clothing that flatters out body type and skin tone, I'm not sure what fictional universe exists where Courtney could possibly be described as chunky.

chuckm · Sep 25, 2016

When I said chunky that is not meant as a dig at her weight. Courtney is very muscular and being short-waisted, she has to be careful with her costumes. When she chooses costumes with a lot of fluff and frill (which don't suit either her personality or skating style) her waist disappears altogether. Last season, she did have one costume that was a lot plainer than she usually wears, and it was amazing how good she looked.

ordinary person · Sep 26, 2016

Mathman said:
I think it was Sonja Henie.She wanted to look like a showgirl. She made 50 million dollars by showing her legs in the cold -- back in the days when $50,000,000 was some money. :yes:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b3/af/a1/b3afa1574e80dab81f7d02d84a70367c.jpg

Despite the sarcasm she certainly has something to do with it being all that popular, it kind of makes sense. I always had a feeling she was behind this crazy nonsensical idea. :disagree:

Mathman · Sep 26, 2016

ordinary person said:
Despite the sarcasm she certainly has something to do with it being all that popular, it kind of makes sense. I always had a feeling she was behind this crazy nonsensical idea. :disagree:

No sarcasm intended. Sonja Henie took figure skating to Hollywood and, pretty much single-handedly, turned it into a glamour girl thing. She really was worth $50,000,000 when she died in 1969, and that really was before today's standard where every prominent athlete signs a multimillion dollar contract.

Shows like the Ice Follies were suddenly popular and profitable, which were essentially Las Vegas girly and variety shows on ice.

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/0052960ce...-show-is-the-dream-of-many-a-young-b4xf70.jpg

(The name of this picture, if it doesn't show, is "A place in the chorus line of a big ice show is the dream of many a young girl."

Costumewise, the sport of ice skating never recovered. For decades it continued to be marketed as a beauty display. (Plus, skating moved indoors so getting cold wasn't so much of a factor.)

What was really bizarre was the time that the ladies' golf tour decided that they could make more money if lady golfers were sexier. So they passed a rule that they all had to wear short skirts on the tour. The attempt failed, because to matter how uncomfortable and ridiculous they looked, the men always outshown them in the costmne department..

http://thesandtrap.com/uploads/static_huddler/9/91/916c514c_golf-pants-1.jpg

Do costumes augment or detract?

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