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Yeah mostly likely the team event will see Kolyada and B/S doing both short and free, if Russia is smart about it.
2016-17 State of Russian Men's skating
- Thread starter Tolstoj
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Yeah mostly likely the team event will see Kolyada and B/S doing both short and free, if Russia is smart about it.
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I'm not quite sure how he's "blown almost every single chance" when he's gotten GP golds and silvers (in 3 out of the past 4 seasons), 3 medals at Euros out of the past 4, and 3 out of the past 4 national titles. This was his only bad season (although his international medal haul was still better than Kolyada).
And it's not like he or any other Russian this quad was expected to be a serious Worlds podium contender (maybe Mikhail last year, but this year's Worlds neither him or Kovtun delivered their best). Plus, like Mikhail, he was 4th at a recent Worlds, which isn't something to sneeze at.
If you want to dwell on 2013 Worlds (when no Russian other than Plu would have likely gotten a top 10/2 Olympic spots anyways, but Kovtun was the scapegoat entry), sure feel free. But had there only been 1 Russian entry at this Worlds, either Kolyada (8th) or Kovtun (10th in Kolyada's absence) would have got a placement sufficiently good enough for two Olympic entries.
But hey, maybe I'm just playin devil's advocate!
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You are totally right. CSG perfectly knows where was Plu at WCH 2013. But he writes this ^^ again and again.. Boring. Maybe I will put him on my ignore list..
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2013 worlds doesn't have to mentioned anymore. There's been lots of subsequent bombings and kovtuns general inability to jump consistently. Recognizing that Europe men's stable is empty at this moment aside from Fernandez who wins every euros by 50 points shows value of euro medals. Some of that Is jumping problems and some of that is Russia refusal to be like other countries and send their best to train in North America with coaches who teach the proper artistry for IJS points.
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I'm not trying to start anything but, what happened in 2013?
Well, technically, please tell me more about proper artistry for IJS points and russian ladies
The only issue about russian men is that they cannot land 6 quads in two programs back to back. Once that is done, PCs will come, as we can see it with Chen.
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Up until Nathan Chen moved up to seniors the scenery in America had about zero medal contenders aside from Patrick Chan. Also, the coaches do know how to capitalize points in Russia with singles, ask Etri. But certainly she can do nothing if the skaters can't land quad after quad. The issue in Russia isn't related to artistry at all, they just have to land the jumps.
So much! Kovtun had a good junior season but had disaster Russian senior nationals. based on kovtun junior results he was sent euros even though he was fifth! behind Plushenko voronov menshov and gachinski! Then at euros he was the highest ranking Russian man after Plushenko withdrawal. Then he was named to worlds and flopped so spectacularly it was shocking! Lowest TES in sp. lucky to make lp. No doubt the worst performance by a Russian man in a decade. Maybe the most extraordinary special treatment of all time. Kovtun caused Russia to have one spot. Handed a huge gift and didn't bother to work or train and even Tarasova has hated him ever since! It always made me wonder is kovtun related to billionaire oligarch?
Well, technically, please tell me more about proper artistry for IJS points and russian ladies
The only issue about russian men is that they cannot land 6 quads in two programs back to back. Once that is done, PCs will come, as we can see it with Chen.
I don't think that is true because even when Russian men can jump they do not get pcs. Training in North America Chen is assumed to have proper IJS artistry anyway
Maybe
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To be fair, Kolyada gets decent PCS (more PCS than Nathan Chen at WTT and within 2 points of of Chen's PCS at Worlds!) even when he has mistakes on his jumps and skates cheesy programs that look identical season after season. Once Kolyada gets some decent choreography and keeps the mistakes to a minimum, his PCS will 100% improve even if he stays in Russia.
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Plushenko had surgery in March 2013. The Israeli doctor replaced a disc of Plushenko's spine and stabilitated it with 4 titanium screws. They gave 30 years garantee. One of the screws broke in Sochi.
CSG always says Plushenko should have competed in the World CH and then Russia has 3 spots in Sochi.
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Not True!!!! Joshua Farris, Pre- Concussion was always "In the mix" and wasn't Jason Brown 4th in 2015. We are in Era of legends and until Hanyu and Patrick retire, they along with Javi have dominated the rankings since Sochi. Adam Rippon was having a spectacular season before his injury and I think he could also be a threat next season. After getting a good look at Joshua's new quad, we could see him win Nationals in 2018. At this point, it is far too soon to speculate, and I never say never when we talk about the Olympics.
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I don't mean any disrespect to Josh because it's obviously not his fault that he had so many health issues, but he has won exactly one medal as a senior (not counting one other from a senior B), at 4CC 2015. So can he really have been called "in the mix" when he barely got to compete and his other results ranged from 5th to 11th place? I mean, Russia has several guys who are "in the mix" too, if we look at it like that. As for Adam, he's got many good qualities about him, but I think he's maxed out his scoring potential. Who knows, though. I do agree that it is far too soon to write anyone off or predict the teams or Oly medalists.
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The last two seasons were dominated by man with more than two quads, especially this one. Even before, they were in the mix when one of the top contenders didn't deliver - but that's not even true anymore, if you don't deliver, another one will. Nathan carved his own spot at the top with the amount of quads he's doing, but the others will have a lot of trouble doing so. Is it far too soon to speculate? Maybe, but let's not wait for miracles (and I love Josh).
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This isn't really speculation it's more of a wish. I really want Max to make the team. Before Nathan appeared on the seen, Max was the biggest jumper that the US had. I think he will be back with a vengeance after his Nationals disappointment.
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Well, with the field Max is going against, he needs a lot more than three quads, to be honest. Jason with half a quad scores a lot better than him, also Nathan and Vincent have them out of the wazoo. Adam and Josh are going to come back. It's not gonna be easy for him.
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I keep forgetting about Vincent and you're right about him. I usually have a very easy time picking a World Team because the US hasn't been this deep in quite a while. We also have the returning Ricki next season. Alexei Krasnozhon looks like he'll remain a Junior so that's one less threat to the Senior Men. What about Ross Miner? How is he looking?
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No idea. I don't really follow the US men besides Josh a bit.
That is so incorrect. Russian coaches often sends their skaters in US and Canada to work with choreographers, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Liza FS choreo by Sandhu this season was cheap to be honest (the music cut also terrible), Jeffrey Buttle did a terrible job with Voronov a couple of season ago, Marina Zueva's programs for Eteri skaters last year were meh. Shae-Lynn Bourne's SP for Lena Radionova was fine this season, but i think that's the only good program made by an american/canadian choreographer for a russian skater in years.
Some of these works were so bad that i even suspected these choreographers made it on purpose. Besides that there is no need to travel that much: Zhulin and Tchernyshev are great choreographers, Morozov and Averbukh also made great programs in the past, Misha Ge did a fine job with Mishin's skaters and Anya Pogorilaya this season.
Actually it's true the opposite: USFS never sends their skaters in Russia.
Russian Fed isn't betting that much on Eteri with Men figure skating, because her skaters actually achieved good results: Voronov won a bronze at GPF three years ago and a couple of medals at Europeans with her (basically the peak of his career), Pitkeev JGPF and JW silver medalist in 2013/14, now she has Moris Kvitelashvili who is very consistent even with three quads in the free skate, and also a couple of interesting skaters at juniors. Give her time.
I think there are much more experienced coaches in Russia in Men figure skating: for example i don't get Mishin's strategy for 2018 Olympics. Petrov in the past two years hasn't improved that much, Artur Dmitriev Jr and Andrei Lazukin were pretty much unknown until this season and i didn't even know that Artur Gachinski is still training.
In fairness at that event judges were incredibly strict with all the russians. I remember Adelina getting pretty low scores despite two decent performances.
I kinda agree with that: for some reason Russia can't have the artistic skater. Let's say a Jason Brown situation, where his technique is way way behind the rest of the field but he's still able to stay in the mix because of the PCS (in his case even with the inflation of the TES) is impossible for russian skaters, they have to rely on consistency and a stronger bv than the rest of the field to be competitive which is way more difficult. Probably their federation isn't as powerful as the US fed.
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A walking time bomb who's won 3 Euros medals each of the past 3 seasons, including a silver this year beating Kolyada by 16 points (he beat him by 10 points at Finlandia, too). He also has the only GP golds (and 2 of them at that) for Russia this quadrennial.
I'd personally like to see Kolyada and Kovtun at the Olympics. Partly because, Kovtun was unfairly screwed over by the Russian fed/Plu's team Gold aspirations, partly because Kovtun's actually had medal success for Russia, he has two quads unlike most of the other Russians so he can be competitive if he gets it together, and partly because it's absolutely hilarious how much his success infuriates the haters (and, yes, I acknowledge he's still a brat).
Winning a Euro medal isn't exactly hard since their are no other contenders at Europeans besides Javier. Europe is not exactly bursting at the seams with great men's skaters.
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ANYMORE......You forgot that last part. Plushy, Yags, Lambiel, Javi, Alexander Abt, Tomas Verner, and Brian Joubert have all done very well at Worlds. Who's the cute French skater that made Nikolai Morozov Cry? Florent Amodio.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzhbOy9ovbM
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