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Thread: MK and the 3flip

  1. #1
    Crazy Armchair Fan/Resident Nerd
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    MK and the 3flip

    OK, while my laptop is currently being repaired, I've been re-stocking my figure skating video collection on the home computer. One of the videos I managed to find from www.cruelladekwan.com (a great site, if you haven't been there yet) was MK's LP from the '98 Olys, which I remember from watching it on TV was flawless. Watching it again, I noticed she had a deep knee landing on the 3flip, which is prolly what kept her from winning gold against an otherwise flawless Tara Lipinski

    This immediately got me thinking about MK's LP from the '02 Olys, where all she basically had to do was skate cleanly to win the gold, but she ended up falling. The jump she fell on? Again, a 3flip

    So, what is it w/ the 3flip for MK? It seems like, no matter how relaxed she seems to be, the 3flip is her stumbling block in the Olys. It seems like just a psychological thing, b/c most of the time, the 3flip is one of her better jumps (look at her LP at the 2004 Nats).

    So what is one to make of this?

  2. #2
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    From what I remember, Michelle had trouble with the 3flip all season leading up to SLC. There was talk on the boards that had she had a coach, this could have been fixed.

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    Custom Title Ogre Mage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt
    OK, while my laptop is currently being repaired, I've been re-stocking my figure skating video collection on the home computer. One of the videos I managed to find from www.cruelladekwan.com (a great site, if you haven't been there yet) was MK's LP from the '98 Olys, which I remember from watching it on TV was flawless. Watching it again, I noticed she had a deep knee landing on the 3flip, which is prolly what kept her from winning gold against an otherwise flawless Tara Lipinski
    Actually what mainly kept Michelle from beating Tara in '98 was a lack of a 3/3. She had to take her 3toe/3toe out of her program because of her foot injury. With it, she would have beat Tara hands down. Actually I thought Michelle should have won in '98, even without the 3/3. Her skating was far superior to Lipinski's. She lost fair and square in '02, though.
    Last edited by Ogre Mage; 07-22-2004 at 09:55 PM.

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    Although Michelle's 3flip in her 98 Oly LP was not picture perfect, it was a clean, landed jump. Iin 2002 it was another story. The lack of 3-3 certainly hurt her in 98 against Tara's 3loop-3loop combo. However, Tara's jump technique and artistry were no match for Michelle. IMO the reason MK lost was the skating order.

  5. #5
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    There was no problem in last season's Nats or in Dortmund. The flip went well and that could be for Arutunian.
    I prefer her lutz. When she doesn't do it correctly (once in awhile) she goes from the outside edge to the flat, which is better than going from an outside edge to an inside edge which imo, is a flip. It may be why her 'flutz' is from the flat and not from the problem flip edge like other skaters' flutzes especially the Americans.

    Joe

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    http://p068.ezboard.com/bstrawberrycanyonfsc
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    Normally, her problem jump is the loop, and not the flip. I guess you're right- it's her stumbling block in the Oly's.

    During dance auditions, I always have trouble doing double pirouettes on my left foot...but during rehearsals, they're always there.

    hmmm

  7. #7
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    In 02 her problems seem to come with the flip. In 03, she was spot on with all her jumps. In 04 she seemed concerned with the loop but it was the lutz she doubled or fell on.

    I hope in 05 and 06 she has a repeat of 03. All jumps nailed secure and steady.

    Ladybug

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    Yeah, Michelle's problem jump has always been the triple loop. She has consistently struggled with this jump for many, many years now. I'm glad she has chosen to put it as the first triple....I think that has proven to be a good strategy for her over the years. As for the flip, as Thisthingcalledlove pointed out...I think she just happened to make mistakes on the triple flip in her Olympic appearances. Generally, the triple flip is a strong jump for Michelle and I also think it is one of her best.

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    I do believe that a lack of a coach didn't help her with the flip in '02. She was clearly having a timing problem and placement of the toepick which she survived in the sp - barely but became her undoing in the long. However I think her jumps have improved imeasurably since joining Aruturian. The inconsistency on the lutz is a correction of her sometimes flutz I think which I'm sure will be sorted by next season. I still worry about her loop though. It always looks precarious to me :(

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    Funny, but Irina had a problem on her 3F in the SLC FS too! And at '03 Worlds, Sarah Hughes fell on the 3F in HER FS.

  11. #11
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    This discussion brings to mind the theory that the Protopopovs have about skaters and jumps. They believe that each skater feels comfortabe with either the toe pick jumps or edge jumps, and that the other kind can be learned, but will never come natural. Could be thay Michelle is just a natural toe pick jumper.

  12. #12
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Ptichka........so very true. I've never seen her miss (double maybe) but not miss the Sal, which is also an edge jump, so maybe it's just the loop itself and not edge jumps in particular that are a problem for her............? 42

  13. #13
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    I agree that Michelle's toughest jump is the loop. However, in the big events (Nationals & Worlds), she has almost always landed it when it really counted. (sometimes tightly, but clean). It seems as though she tends to double it in the smaller events.

  14. #14
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Pitchka and Show 42 - Historically edge jumps came first. The waltz jump; the loop jump and the salchow. I don't know much about the introdcution to the toe off jumps. I would think it was accidental. Someone probably accidentally did a toe off on a slachow and voila, the flip. Similarly, the loop became the toe loop; the luz of course came before the toeless lutz. (The axel came from an aditional air turn of the waltz jump._

    The toe off jumps imo, are easier than the edge jumps. Edge jumps require a perfect edge with a deep pliet and power from the hip (loop) or groin (salchow). Toe off jumps assist the skater to get higher jumps, and imo opinion give the sport a more exciting look. Just my take from my own practices.

    When you think about jumps, they all look the same in the air. It's not like diving.

    Joe

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    Michelle is defiantely a toe jumper. The sal comes quite easy to her though but the axel has had some dodgy moments since she matured. It used to be a great jump for her but post '97 it has caused some problems. The triple loop requires amazing spring in the right thigh to pull it off. There is no assist from the take off so if you don't have that natural ability then you are always going to struggle with it.

    IMO MK doesn't have this and therefore has to get her timing absolutely perfect to pull the jump off. There is no margin for error on this but if you look at her record from 11 World Championship LP's, you'll find 12 triple loops landed - 2 for '98.

    Funnily enough, because of her injury in '97/98 her triple loop really improved. If you watch her Skate Canada '97 one it is gorgeous with good height and flawless landing.

    Ignore everything I just typed skategods!!

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