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Thread: MK and the 3flip

  1. #31
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I understand the importance of athlete´s "body of work", but in my opinion for that to be really awesome and great in eligible skating, it definetely must besides National and World titles include also one or maybe two Olympic gold medals.

    If a skater wins a National title each year and the World title also each year for many years (without getting beaten at all), that is truly great "body of work", but in those competitions only, if that skater still lacks the win of an Olympic gold medal. It is not in my opinion a question of skater´s great appeal or popularity, it is a question with great "body of work" whether a skater manages to win everything there is or not.
    Why must a skater win the OGM before "a body of work" be established? It doesn't make sense. Leo Politi and Bill Peet are two important writers of children's literature spanning decades. Neither has won the "Newberry" award (which might be considered the OGM of children's Lit.) Their body of work is impressive, very popular, and important, even without the Newberry........42

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by show 42
    Why must a skater win the OGM before "a body of work" be established? It doesn't make sense. (snip) .... body of work is impressive, very popular, and important, even without the Newberry........42
    If we are speaking of sports, no Olympic win means that a skater lacks one title, the very ultimate title. In some other sports some other competition is seen as the most important, in tennis it is Wimbledon. If a tennis player has won everything else (no matter how many times), but not Wimbledon, it means that she/he lacks the ultimate title. Of course they are great athletes although that ultimate title is lacking, but they were greater if they had won that (Olympics, Wimbledon) too.

    Marjaana
    Last edited by Jaana; 07-27-2004 at 12:36 PM.

  3. #33
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana
    I understand the importance of athlete´s "body of work", but in my opinion for that to be really awesome and great in eligible skating, it definetely must besides National and World titles include also one or maybe two Olympic gold medals. Marjaana
    Jaana, I believe you are not talking about beautiful skating but winning medals. Not every medal winner was a beautiful skater. For example, in that controversal Olys where Poetz won over linda, the beautiful skater was Bielman. A gold medal did not make Poetz a more beautiful skater than Bielman. Poetz just happened to be more competititve that night.

    What you are describing is a history of medall winning. This is already covered in the Hall of Fame criteria. Maybe Poetz will be entered in it at some future time for the gold medal at an Olys. But beautiful skating she did not have, in anyone's opinion. Bielman did and she continues to astound audiences when she skates in Europe, and of course, there is that spin that made her famous. but she does not have a gold medal anywhere. So what?

    Entry into the Body of Work award would have to be decided by a panel of judges who have the highest integrity in the love for the sport. That means no one from a Federation. I would even like the skaters, and coaches nominate one skater each year, and repeat the nomination if the skater did not win the award. But I would leave the criteria to others. For me, it's beautiful skating over a lengthy period in eligible or show or both skating

    It's totally different from what you are describing but I agree with you on who gets into the Hall of Fame as far as skaters are concerned..

    Joe

  4. #34
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    Does Sarah Hughes belong in the Hall of Fame, or should she be listed as a skater with an outstanding Body of Work, just because she won the OGM?

    I say absolutely not. Sarah had one terrific skate on one night, but the rest of her resume isn't anywhere near on a par with her Olympic win. As a Senior skater, she actually won only three International competitions: Skate Canada 2001, the 2002 Olympics (in both cases, top competitors Kwan and Slutskaya did not skate well); and a "B" international, the Vienna Cup, in 1999. Sarah competed at four World Championships, where she finished 3rd (2001), 5th (2000), 6th (2003) and 7th (1999). She competed in 7 GP events and won just one, with three 2nds, two 3rds and a 4th; she made it to two GPFs, in 2001 and 2002, and finishing 3rd behind Kwan and Slutskaya both times.

    On the National level, as a Senior, Sarah never won the US Championship, finishing 2nd (2001, 2003), 3rd (2002) and 4th (1999). As a Junior, Sarah was the 1998 US Junior champion, and finished 2nd at Junior Worlds that year. She competed in two JGP event, finishing 2nd, and finished 2nd in her only JGPF.

  5. #35
    Medalist
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    Sarah's resume sounds great to me

  6. #36
    Lovin' the Kween ... Now and Forever
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    If only someone with an Olympic gold medal can be looked at to have an awesome body of work, well that effectively eliminates the majority of the skating world. Thanks goodness most people don't look at it that way.
    The fact is, Michelle's body of work is in a league of it's own. If she never won another medal, she would still be considered as one of the greatest to ever skate competitively ... OGM or not.

  7. #37
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Jaana,

    MM

  8. #38
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    I don't know if Sarah's Hughes's "body of work" belongs in the Hall of Fame...but it certainly belongs somewhere. She was a consistent skater that gave us quite a few very respectable, solid skates. She gave wonderful performances (yes...even with the technique flaws) at the 2001 Worlds and the 2002 Grand Prix Final. She also was great at the 2001 and 2002 U.S. Nationals. I've never been a massive fan of Sarah's skating, but I always liked it and felt she was such a commendable, reliable athlete. She had a pleasing presence on the ice and a lot of gumption and I will always remember that.

  9. #39
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    I agree that Sarah was a good athlete, but she was not a great athlete, and certainly not an outstanding one. She was reliable, dependable, and always a podium competitor. But the only really thrilling performance I can recall was her SLC FS. The rest of the time, she always held back and didn't give her all as she did that night.

  10. #40
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    Sarah will go down in history as one of the most consistent skaters of her time. Her 3/3's were beauties. Some whine and say she "cheated" them. Irina cheated hers when she very rarely landed them. Tara's were said to be cheated at times. How many other skaters are even attempting them? So what if she cheated them a few times.
    We have people that give Sasha Cohen credit for 3/3's when she 2 foots the landings, but Sarah gets no credit for her accomplishments because someone thinks she underrotated the jumps?
    Michelle's were nice, but where are they now? And Sasha has only landed one and it was very iffy.
    I'm sorry to come off rude. I am just frustrated at some of the double standards in the skating world.
    Sarah was a great skater. She won when it counted. The other three crumpled under the pressure. Sarah went out, and got it done.
    I don't care if she never gets into the Hall of Fame. She will always be in MY Hall of Fame.

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Here's Sarah saying, THANKS, FOSSI!

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/oly02...ughes22202.jpg

    Mathman

  12. #42
    Rinkside
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    I always liked sarahs skating and feel that she never got the credit she deserved. Of course Michelle has always been my favorite and will continue to be.

    mathman

  13. #43
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    she was not a great athlete, and certainly not an outstanding one. She was reliable, dependable, and always a podium competitor
    I can see why you might not have been in love with Sarah's skating, certainly. Everyone has their own preference and certain things they look for. But, I would say that because she was such a podium contender that did make her an outstanding athlete. There are many great athletes that have never won World, Olympic, National or even Grand Prix medals....Sarah consistently vied for and won all four types. She trained her butt off and brought it to the table for 3 seasons (99-02). She worked very hard and almost always showed up to competitions extremely well prepared both mentally and physically. That is the mark of an outstanding athlete. Now, if you were arguing that she wasn't an outstanding technician or artist I could understand that more...but to say that she wasn't an outstanding athlete is really slighting her and all of the great accomplishments that she achieved for the U.S. team.

  14. #44
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    How about the speed skater who was in last place and won the OGM because everyone ahead of him was involved in a major crash. That OGM did not make him a great athlete or give him the title of Outstanding Body of Work.

    I must add that just making it to the Olympics is a great accomplishment.

    Sarah had a wonderful skate at SLC. Her best ever in my opinion and deserved to win the OGM. She wasn't an elite skater for very long and I wonder if she would still have consistent 3/3's if she were still skating.

    Michelle and Irena have been around for a long time and have outstanding bodies of work for many years and I wouldn't count out either one of them. They may not win the OGM in 2006 but I appreciate the joy they have given me for all these years. There are many others in this same catagory.

    Ladybug

  15. #45
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fossi
    We have people that give Sasha Cohen credit for 3/3's when she 2 foots the landingse:
    I've never seen people give Sasha credit for her 3/3s when they two-footed.

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