Tarasova's greatest Coaching achievement
- Thread starter Vash01
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- Jul 31, 2003
berthes ghost said:
Do you really take these polls seriously? They are not exactly gallup polls. They are for the entertainment of skating fans and to encourage discussions. I don't belong to the MTV generation and although I have read about Rodnina's accomplishments, TT's name does not really jump out as her coach. From whatever little I have seen of R&Z (actually only two performances- 80 Oly, and one of the worlds where their music stopped), I don't see Tarasova's signature on them.
Besides, there is the category 'Other' which you can vote for.
As far as Wannabe Johnny Weir is concerned, I see a HUGE difference in him from previous year. I know he has a coach who is not TT, but he spent some time with TT and he is a completely different skater this year- he has confidence. IMO that's what TT excels at. Shizuka spent hardly two weeks with her, but TT gave her that final piece of the puzzle- believing in her own abilities.
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- Jul 28, 2003
Shizuka was always labelled as a jumping bean, so I don't see where the "decent feel for artistry" comes from. This has been discussed to death, but anyway... I believe there are different types of coaches. Some are good teaching the basics, for example, others are good for polishing and cleaning the programs, others don't exactly excell at both but connect well with the students and give them confidence... Tarasova is a coach who polishes the skater and since she's also a choreographer, her input on the programs is also what makes the difference. How many times we complain that this skater or that one has so much potential and is getting there, but there's always something missing? That is her job, to give them that last touch that will help them to fulfill all their potential. And this is not easy. When you have a skater that is already good, make him/ her/ them even better, find those last 5% to make them superb can sometimes be harder than starting from zero.PrincessLeppard said:
Not sure how to vote. She and Yagudin formed an extraordinary partnership, but I also believe that he would still succeed the same (perhaps not with the same success) with another coach, maybe not with Mishin but with someone else. So I won't vote for him. I will have to think about this one, but probably B/B.
Ptichka said:
I enjoy B&B's routines, but I don't know much about their history pre-88. When did they go to Tarasova to be coached?
I know you said that B&B were Tarasova's creation, but did they have any other major coach before her?
TAnother question: Tarasova has been known for giving skaters the extra boost they need & for sometimes adding an extra dimension of artistry that may not have been there before. But how good is she at teaching technique?
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Like it was said, usually her students already have the technique. So AFAIK she doesn't really "teach", it's more like an efort to keep it. But she usually has no problems to "hire" someone who knows more than her in a certain area. So I believe that if any of her students needed help with some aspect of jumps or something, she'd probably hire someone for a few months. Lately, Yagudin has been helping her with her students, at least before he goes on tour, so I guess that if there is some problem with technique he can probably help.lulu said:
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Natalia was a national Junior champion. Andrei was actually a pair skater before coming to TT. His partner Olga was declared to have no potential, and the partnership was broken up. Andrei decided to leave the sport entirely, but Olga convinced him to go back.lulu said:
TT but them together in 1977 - when Natalia was 17, and Andrei 19. Back then, nobody thought it was possible to put together skaters who are that old. Since Andrei had experience with pairs, he ended up teaching Natalia a lot in the beginning (that was when TT spent a lot of time with Moiseeva & Minenkov).
Now, Moiseeva and Minenkov are a different story. They were put together by a different coach when they were both 6 years old; the coach passed them on to TT when they were still pre-teens. (Though they did spend their last 3 seasons with other coaches because they felt TT switched her focus to B&B)
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- Jul 11, 2003
Vash01 said:
I saw a big difference in Weir just before he hit the boards in 2003 and I thought much of his Nationals debut in 2001 as being an extremely talented skater. I give full credit to Priscilla Hill. In his 6 week tenure in Connecticut, after the disaster, he had Platov and Yagudin as well as TT coaching him. Maybe they instilled in him some confidence which he needed after those boards he hit in 2003. I thought his choreography in 2004 was ok but nothing special. This is where he needs work. Johnny has to learn to project. Can that be taught or coached?
Joe
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I met Tatiana at a national competition once!
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- Jul 31, 2003
Matt said:PrincessLeppard said:Now, if she could take, say, Ludmilla Nelidina, and coach her to gold, THAT would be something.
If ANYONE could do ANYTHING w/ Ludmilla Nelidina beside get her to land the triple axel, that would be something! (I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of hers)
In the end, I voted for Shizuka (though it was a toss-up between her and Yags's Olympic LP, which is still my favourite of his programmes). She [Shizuka] already came in w/ the jumps and that "Turandot" routine, but TT added some extra subtleties and gave Shizuka a big confidence boost, which probably resulted in the 3lutz-3toe-2loop in her LP, which pretty much settled the Ladies title in Dortmund right there, IMHO
Shizuka's 3-3-2 was wonderful but I don't think that alone determined the title. Remember, Sasha got 3 first place votes with even a subpar performance- without a 3-3 and a very shaky landing on the first triple. Shizuka needed a perfect performance to even have a chance of winning. She was always capable of doing it but she never did until she turned to Tarasova, who must have given her a HUGE confidence boost.
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- Jul 26, 2003
On the whole in the judging in Dortmund, high-difficulty jumps attempts were given undue credit. Among the higher-placed skaters, Ando's 2nd in Quali A; Kostner's otherwise inexplicable placement over Sebestyen, Poykio, and Rochette in the LP; Slutskaya's placement over Volchkova and Suguri in Quali A; Sandhu's 1st in Quali B; Dambier's 4th in QB despite a flawed landing on nearly every one of his jumps were among the most questionable. Where the judging was most awful was for the lowest-ranked skaters among the Men, where deep edges, good spins and footwork, and mostly clean lower-difficulty jumps were being trumped by awkward attempts on more difficult jumps. Zivanovic, for example, got the last qualifying spot for the SP, and he was a mess. Dong-Whun Lee, who finished just behind him in Quali A and got cut was so much more accomplished. This isn't surprising, given that the CoP judges asked that the Levels of Difficulty for spins, lifts, footwork, etc. be removed from the screens partway into the season, because they found themselves scoring higher when the LoD was higher. Because they all "know" the relative difficulty of jumps without a caller, luckily, the caller/tech specialists/inputters will be there to call cheats.Vash01 said:
I do think it was the 3/3/2 combined with a perfect performance that gave her first in the FS and the title, because the combo distinguished her from the top contenders, particularly Ando, and her lack of flaws put her over Cohen's sub-par performance and (barely) over Kwan's flawed program. However, given how close Cohen's and Kwan's ordinals were to Arakawa's despite their performances, I don't think she would have won the freeskate had she not been in 2nd position after the SP, where she received credit for two cheated jumps, one in the 3Z/3T combination. In my opinion, with those flaws, she should have been in 6th in the SP. I still think she should have won with 1/6/1 placements, but I don't think the judges would have given her the win in the LP had she come into the LP in 3rd or 4th place, especially skating first, 3/3/2 or no 3/3/2. I think she would have ended up with the bronze, which would have been a travesty.
I think that perfect performance had a foundation in Callahan's training, but was put over the top by Tarasova. Most telling was how Arakawa described how Tarasova changed the way she breathed, so that she had stamina at the end of the program.
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I really believe TT gave Sasha one beautiful Swan Lake routine and I think she went into detail with it. Certainily Yags was a gem for her. He had a lot of baggage before her. I believe he was actually intimated by Plush. I don't follow dance so closely so I'll refrain from saying anything about that especially since I'm not crazy about 'over the top' psuedo passion. Just my take on dance.
However, Although, I think TT worked well with Johnny and Shizuka, it was just for a short while and I don't think it was so overwhelming as to make their Nats win and World's win. Both those skaters had a lot of talent before TT and I think they would have done as well if not being with her. I do give her credit for maybe giving them some fine tuning. In the case of Johnny, she was working exceedingly hard with Griazev, and she showed how much she wanted him to win at Dortmund Worlds. I'm looking forward this season for Shizuka and how well she does after a year with TT.
However, Although, I think TT worked well with Johnny and Shizuka, it was just for a short while and I don't think it was so overwhelming as to make their Nats win and World's win. Both those skaters had a lot of talent before TT and I think they would have done as well if not being with her. I do give her credit for maybe giving them some fine tuning. In the case of Johnny, she was working exceedingly hard with Griazev, and she showed how much she wanted him to win at Dortmund Worlds. I'm looking forward this season for Shizuka and how well she does after a year with TT.
Shizza'a up there too, though!
