Tarasova's greatest Coaching achievement

**Vash01** · 07-25-2004, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard

I was just thinking of that program today. I hated it, but I remember the female commentator saying, "I am so honored to have seen this program," and I was thinking that I just wasted four minutes of my life.

Can someone tell me this: Has TT coached someone to a gold medal who was not already very accomplished? I don't know much about her dance background, but with Shizuka, Ilia and Alexei (and to some extent, Griazev) they came to her with jumps in hand, and a decent feel for artistry. Now, if she could take, say, Ludmilla Nelidina, and coach her to gold, THAT would be something.

I didn't vote for anyone.

Laura

Even a great coach needs skaters that have talent and potential or there are no results to show. Yagudin could have won the gold without TT- JMHO- but some of the others might not have. Shizuka was not an accomplished skater, by world championship standards before she went to TT. She has never won even the bronze at worlds. In fact I don't think she had placed even in the top 5 at worlds, before 2004!

A coach is not a magician. He/she cannot CREATE something that a skater does not have. He/she can only help a skater develop what he/she has. Again, JMHO.

**BittyBug** · 07-25-2004, 11:18 AM

Tough choices, but in the end, although K&P's Air is one of my favorite free dances (great comments on this one, Vash), I ended up voting for Yagudin. TT gave him two incredibly memorable programs - Winter and MITIM - and his performances of both were nearly flawless. And in addition to helping Yagudin develop his artistry, TT seems to have helped him pull his head together.

(And I agree with the poster that said that Weir doesn't really belong on the list. Johnny definitely credits TT with helping him last season, but he has also said that he owes everything to Priscilla Hill. She's the one who works with him every day, and she's the one who with him at every competition. So I'd say that TT's was more of a supporting role, whereas Priscilla Hill is the star.)

**berthes ghost** · 07-26-2004, 06:36 AM

I'm sorry, but how could I possibly take this poll seriously when it lists a wanna-be like Johnny Weir and leaves off one of the most accomplished champions of all time: Irina Rodnina? I don't care if you're only 10 years old, is history really that forgotten by the MTV generation? Shamefull IMHO.

**Antilles** · 07-26-2004, 11:47 AM

I voted for Yagudin. He really grew with Tarasova. I lov K&P, but as two time Olympic medallists, and two time World Champions, I think they already had the goods before Tarasova. What she gave them was a happy coaching environment.

**Ptichka** · 07-26-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard

Can someone tell me this: Has TT coached someone to a gold medal who was not already very accomplished? I don't know much about her dance background, but with Shizuka, Ilia and Alexei (and to some extent, Griazev) they came to her with jumps in hand, and a decent feel for artistry.

Absolutely. Bestemianova & Bukin (whom I voted for) were her creation, period. She recalls the famous Frau Muller (Witt's coach) calling her crazy for taking on such an "ugly duckling" as Natalia, but TT knew she could do magic with them. To me, they pushed ice dance incredibly through their expression and choreography. I would even add to the "greatest accomplishments" list her first dance couple, Moiseeva & Minenkov (though they never won Olympic gold) -- this was her first attempt to create something brand new on the ice; BTW, they were also a pair she created.

I didn't vote for Yagudin, because I think that TT's importance there was more as a councilor. Besides, as others said, he was already an accomplished skater when he came to her. BTW, I wold disagree with Princess on Yagudin's feel for artistry -- I always felt he's had none until he left Mishin.

As for Klimova & Ponomarenko... she did indeed add a very special flair to them, but what really made them unique is the exquisite technique that Dubova gave them; much as I prefer TT's style, I must admit that none of her teams ever had such clean edges and soft knees. If anything, I think her work with Gretchuk & Platov was far more fruitful, though of course they already had an Olympic gold when they came to her. Still, I think their '98 gold had TT written all over it.

Originally Posted by berthes ghost

I'm sorry, but how could I possibly take this poll seriously when it lists a wanna-be like Johnny Weir and leaves off one of the most accomplished champions of all time: Irina Rodnina? I don't care if you're only 10 years old, is history really that forgotten by the MTV generation? Shamefull IMHO.

IMO, Tarasova really did not add much to Rodnina & Zaitsev's skating. Rodnina was 100% the creation of Zhuk (the coach that Katya describes in My Sergei as such a monster). If anything, when Zhuk dumped them, they chose TT because she was young, inexperienced, and they could do whatever they wanted. When I look at their programs, I cannot see anything of TT's MO there.

Though I have to admit that I find very odd the idea of Arakawa being TT's greatest achievement. Come on, she worked with the girl for a few weeks, fixed a few things here and there, and helped her give an excellent (though not uniquely so) performance.

**soogar** · 07-26-2004, 06:30 PM

Shine:

I like Ilia's Klimkin's creativity , however he is so inconsistent in competition. Ilia is a grown up so he can keep his creativity and maybe TT can work on his head b/c Ilia already has all of the jumps.

**Vash01** · 07-27-2004, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by berthes ghost

I'm sorry, but how could I possibly take this poll seriously when it lists a wanna-be like Johnny Weir and leaves off one of the most accomplished champions of all time: Irina Rodnina? I don't care if you're only 10 years old, is history really that forgotten by the MTV generation? Shamefull IMHO.

Do you really take these polls seriously? They are not exactly gallup polls. They are for the entertainment of skating fans and to encourage discussions. I don't belong to the MTV generation and although I have read about Rodnina's accomplishments, TT's name does not really jump out as her coach. From whatever little I have seen of R&Z (actually only two performances- 80 Oly, and one of the worlds where their music stopped), I don't see Tarasova's signature on them.

Besides, there is the category 'Other' which you can vote for.

As far as Wannabe Johnny Weir is concerned, I see a HUGE difference in him from previous year. I know he has a coach who is not TT, but he spent some time with TT and he is a completely different skater this year- he has confidence. IMO that's what TT excels at. Shizuka spent hardly two weeks with her, but TT gave her that final piece of the puzzle- believing in her own abilities.

**RIskatingfan** · 07-28-2004, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard

Can someone tell me this: Has TT coached someone to a gold medal who was not already very accomplished? I don't know much about her dance background, but with Shizuka, Ilia and Alexei (and to some extent, Griazev) they came to her with jumps in hand, and a decent feel for artistry.

Shizuka was always labelled as a jumping bean, so I don't see where the "decent feel for artistry" comes from. This has been discussed to death, but anyway... I believe there are different types of coaches. Some are good teaching the basics, for example, others are good for polishing and cleaning the programs, others don't exactly excell at both but connect well with the students and give them confidence... Tarasova is a coach who polishes the skater and since she's also a choreographer, her input on the programs is also what makes the difference. How many times we complain that this skater or that one has so much potential and is getting there, but there's always something missing? That is her job, to give them that last touch that will help them to fulfill all their potential. And this is not easy. When you have a skater that is already good, make him/ her/ them even better, find those last 5% to make them superb can sometimes be harder than starting from zero.

Not sure how to vote. She and Yagudin formed an extraordinary partnership, but I also believe that he would still succeed the same (perhaps not with the same success) with another coach, maybe not with Mishin but with someone else. So I won't vote for him. I will have to think about this one, but probably B/B.

**lulu** · 07-28-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ptichka

Absolutely. Bestemianova & Bukin (whom I voted for) were her creation, period. She recalls the famous Frau Muller (Witt's coach) calling her crazy for taking on such an "ugly duckling" as Natalia, but TT knew she could do magic with them. To me, they pushed ice dance incredibly through their expression and choreography. I would even add to the "greatest accomplishments" list her first dance couple, Moiseeva & Minenkov (though they never won Olympic gold) -- this was her first attempt to create something brand new on the ice; BTW, they were also a pair she created.

.

I enjoy B&B's routines, but I don't know much about their history pre-88. When did they go to Tarasova to be coached?
I know you said that B&B were Tarasova's creation, but did they have any other major coach before her?

TAnother question: Tarasova has been known for giving skaters the extra boost they need & for sometimes adding an extra dimension of artistry that may not have been there before. But how good is she at teaching technique?

**RIskatingfan** · 07-28-2004, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by lulu

TAnother question: Tarasova has been known for giving skaters the extra boost they need & for sometimes adding an extra dimension of artistry that may not have been there before. But how good is she at teaching technique?

Like it was said, usually her students already have the technique. So AFAIK she doesn't really "teach", it's more like an efort to keep it. But she usually has no problems to "hire" someone who knows more than her in a certain area. So I believe that if any of her students needed help with some aspect of jumps or something, she'd probably hire someone for a few months. Lately, Yagudin has been helping her with her students, at least before he goes on tour, so I guess that if there is some problem with technique he can probably help.

**Ptichka** · 07-28-2004, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by lulu

I enjoy B&B's routines, but I don't know much about their history pre-88. When did they go to Tarasova to be coached?
I know you said that B&B were Tarasova's creation, but did they have any other major coach before her?

Natalia was a national Junior champion. Andrei was actually a pair skater before coming to TT. His partner Olga was declared to have no potential, and the partnership was broken up. Andrei decided to leave the sport entirely, but Olga convinced him to go back.

TT but them together in 1977 - when Natalia was 17, and Andrei 19. Back then, nobody thought it was possible to put together skaters who are that old. Since Andrei had experience with pairs, he ended up teaching Natalia a lot in the beginning (that was when TT spent a lot of time with Moiseeva & Minenkov).

Now, Moiseeva and Minenkov are a different story. They were put together by a different coach when they were both 6 years old; the coach passed them on to TT when they were still pre-teens. (Though they did spend their last 3 seasons with other coaches because they felt TT switched her focus to B&B)

**Vash01** · 07-29-2004, 01:08 AM

Great information, Ptichka! Also great question, Lulu! I learned something new.

Vash

**LilyBerg** · 08-31-2004, 05:46 PM

I voted for Yagudin.

**Joesitz** · 08-31-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vash01

Do you really take these polls seriously? They are not exactly gallup polls.
Besides, there is the category 'Other' which you can vote for.

As far as Wannabe Johnny Weir is concerned, I see a HUGE difference in him from previous year. I know he has a coach who is not TT, but he spent some time with TT and he is a completely different skater this year- he has confidence. IMO that's what TT excels at. Shizuka spent hardly two weeks with her, but TT gave her that final piece of the puzzle- believing in her own abilities.

I saw a big difference in Weir just before he hit the boards in 2003 and I thought much of his Nationals debut in 2001 as being an extremely talented skater. I give full credit to Priscilla Hill. In his 6 week tenure in Connecticut, after the disaster, he had Platov and Yagudin as well as TT coaching him. Maybe they instilled in him some confidence which he needed after those boards he hit in 2003. I thought his choreography in 2004 was ok but nothing special. This is where he needs work. Johnny has to learn to project. Can that be taught or coached?

Joe