Your thoughts on Skate America

Jaana · Oct 24, 2016

My sp and fs favourite programs in men were skated by

- Shoma Uno
- Boyang Jin
- Nam Nguyen

Brown´s nerves of steel were impressive, it is not easy to be the last skater.

In ladies I loved Mao´s programs most and was happy for the medals of Bell and Mihara.

gotoschool · Oct 24, 2016

Since there are those on this thread who are criticizing Mao so severely, I am reposting my comment from the Ladies freeskate thread. Mao's main issues are a left knee injury and likely an illness in the free. Her left knee injury causes her pain any time she has to put a lot of pressure on her left knee. So, when Mao entered her second double axel (2A /3T), she pulled out of it because of the pain. The next jump that followed is the triple salchow which also puts a lot of strain on her left knee. Secondly, at the end of the freeskate, it is obvious that she is sick. She is fatigued and perspiring profusely, which none of the other women did as reported by yesway. I noticed the fatigue and how much she was sweating as well.

The fact that Mao gave such a wonderful SP performance and such a brave effort in the long, despite what I consider to be the obvious stingy scoring in both, and that she had such beautiful spins, a picturesque spiral, displayed marvelous skating skills and especially gave the most incredible step sequence with such heart felt depth of expression in her freeskate in this condition does not show that she is possessed of a demon but rather the inspiration and guts to go out and show stunning elements, despite the mistakes, with two serious physical ailments simultaneously, when she has already accomplished so very much that she no longer needs to prove anything. Mao is not the best at PR in advertising her injuries or illnesses because she doesn't want to make excuses and she is not the best at finding great backing to lobby for higher scores, but I thank her for showing such profound beauty in her skating in the face of adversity.

I sincerely hope that she will take the time to recover now and I hope that it happens quickly. Mao's performances like her Madame Butterfly at Worlds are full of gushing praise and huge view counts just as her CUp of China SP is and her Long program at Finlandia and her short program at Worlds and so many of those who thought that her performances at Skate of America had profound and peerless beauty and that her scores were too low. Very many people value performances for something different than a score (though of course I realize they are used to mark placements) and the fact that Mao's hands are so full of gifts wherever she performs shows how beloved she is for her performances.

There are very few who have the ability to move people this way, whatever those who seek to bring her down may say.

iamchrislao · Oct 24, 2016

Funny. Are you aware that katarina witt was off podium in the 1994 olympics? How about the failed comeback of midori ito? Did these change their legendary status? Exactly. As sasha said, quoting from janet lyn (sorry about the spellings), why come back? What if you fail? "Nothing you do in this sport can ever be taken away from you." Sasha herself didnt make the vancouver team. Yet we know sasha is sasha. Ballerina on ice. Anyway point is, cut mao some slack. Heck, cut these legends some slack. They have made this sport great. Skating makes them happy. Let them skate. They deserve no less. And ill take mao's skating (even without the jumps) anytime over rough skates overwrought with moves for the sake of points. I take offense at comments dismissive of the sacrifices of these incredible athletes. just amazing how we arrive at conclusions as mere spectators.

Skater Boy said:
Men's - yes, the sp was sloppy and it is unfortunate Shomo couldn't skate a clean fs - it was so difficult and still beautiful. Nice to see Brown skate cleanly and that he iss skating to different music than say riverdance but too bad the quad was not fully rotated. Boyang was a huge disapppointment as a world bronze medallist. Men were impressive especially Kovtun, Voronov, Brown and Nam - the last three were beautifully clean. I think both Voronov and Nam though could have been higher pc wise. The competition is so stiff Nam dropped to sixth. If this is a sign of the times then Russia and the US as well as even Canada are going to have some nice battles in their respective nations.

Pairs- not the best skating. T and M blew it and blew it badly. Nice skates from the Americans though I am not buying Denny and Frazier but they deserved silver. There is something disingenious about their program (fs) but I think they will be a threat to the third Canadian team. I think the delight were the Canadians who like Nam and Daleman were underscored imho. I don't think there is some national conspiracy but I thought Vornoov, Nam,Daleman and B/S in dance and Seguin and Bilodeau in pairs were underscored. I will be curious to see if T and M regroup and get the quad twist. And now it looks like no Russian in the final. interesting - and maybe D and F will make it?

Dance - underwhelmed. I was not impressed with the Shibs though they are works in progress. FD might be interesting but I don't think their skills or programs compare to the French or virtue and moir. But I do think they are the best in the states because Chock and Bates did not look sharp earlier on this season. As I have stated teh Russians are in huge trouble. Not sure what to say. They have gone no where since 2014. B and S have had injuries, bad luck, drug issue not their fault, and really have not grown and most significantly technically have not show the excellence of past Russian teams. I and Z like their other Russian counterparts are far too underwhelming technically making needless errors and missing levels - kind of shocking for Russian dancers. Best hope are Hubbell and Donahoe - nice fd. could be a real eye turner.

Ladies well there was American favoritism here the real nice skate was from Mai. ONe wonders if Gracie really wants to compete and poor Mao. We can say all the right political things about she should leave when she wants, its early in the season, she has such maturity that can't be compared and such artistry but the former 3A queen and known for her jumps has had far too many misses and poor jumping performances not to mention results - we aren't talking like a disappointing skate like T and M in pairs but still medalled - she isn't medalling and you can often "double" your result at a GP to roughly figure your world placement for similar skate (maybe knock off a few positions so Mao would be like bottom of the top ten / twelve. She got beaten by yet another Japanase in Mai but not her sister.(sidenote oh poor Murakami once a world bronze medal threat and now looks to be so fargone she won't even make top 5 in Japan at this rate). Mao will need her3A rotated and clean to really get back on top it appears as she has far too many issues with jumps. I know this sounds mean but she has been working for years on fixing eduges and rotations and doesn't do or doesn't llie doing so many jumps but without a reliable lutz or 3A she is not looking great. I do believe she has another great skate in her though but it gets weaker and less likely after bad performance after bad performance. Again on a side note eventually, sorry Mao, her name and iconic status has to or will fall if she continuously misses the podium and not even close. There were huge issues at this y ear worlds when she was asked to skate at the gala despite not podium and less than stellar performances. If she continues in this direction the fact she is Mao is going to lose its cachet and rightfully so.

overall it is amazing the depth of skating because many top skaters were missing. This competition had no world champion and still was very competitive. Now SA is set up to favour the Americans and it showed in ladies, dance and men for sure. Let's see if this holds true at Skate Canada with the Canadians.

miki88 · Oct 24, 2016

Sweet Dream said:
It is hard to say at this stage that Mao's return is a mistake. Very few skaters do not give way to Olympic temptation, so that even Yuna came back for a 2nd Olympic title in 2014, but unlike Yuna, Mao's real problem is in her inability to adapt her flawed jumps to the rapidly changing scoring rules. Whether she chooses to stay or leave seems to be out of her hands now. If failed to make the national team for the 2017 Worlds, she would most likely make a final decision on her long & glorious skating career, in which helplessness often eclipses the halo of her victories in competitions, imho. Hope she can take all those heavy loads off and finally enjoy life again after retirement.

Although it seems hard for some people to believe, not all skaters return just for the Olympics. They might want to go to the Olympics which is natural for any athlete but it's not the main or only reason. Sure, there are skaters who return just for that one event but they tend to come back for one season and usually opt out of the whole season. Sometimes skaters return because they like skating and believe they could still do it. Also, I think the lack of pro-am competitions might contribute to more veteran skaters returning to competition. Show skating is nice but many athletes still miss competition.

iamchrislao said:
I take offense at comments dismissive of the sacrifices of these incredible athletes. just amazing how we arrive at conclusions as mere spectators.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should be appreciative that more veterans are choosing to continue for a little longer. They are offering something different from the younger generation. It's disappointing to see fans being more medal focused than athletes themselves. It's like the skating is only valuable if one gets a medal for it. :disapp:

iamchrislao · Oct 24, 2016

Well said Miki88! It's like thinking that one song is better than the other because it's number 1 on itunes or something. Hahaha

miki88 said:
Although it seems hard for some people to believe, not all skaters return just for the Olympics. They might want to go to the Olympics which is natural for any athlete but it's not the main or only reason. Sure, there are skaters who return just for that one event but they tend to come back for one season and usually opt out of the whole season. Sometimes skaters return because they like skating and believe they could still do it. Also, I think the lack of pro-am competitions might contribute to more veteran skaters returning to competition. Show skating is nice but many athletes still miss competition.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we should be appreciative that more veterans are choosing to continue for a little longer. They are offering something different from the younger generation. It's disappointing to see fans being more medal focused than athletes themselves. It's like the skating is only valuable if one gets a medal for it. :disapp:

Tolstoj · Oct 24, 2016

A lot of politics going on for each discipline, i didn't enjoy Skate America this season.

I disagree with most of these scores and when it comes to the TES, i don't even know how the discussion can be subjective: a jump is fully rotated or UR, the edge inside or outside... those aren't opinions. Also some of these scores are lower from what we've seen few weeks ago in the challenger series (where usually judges are strict).

It would be nice if some judges at the end of those event release an essay or something where they explain us the protocols (especially those GOEs) in a more detailed way.

skylark · Oct 24, 2016

In Men's FP, Sergei Voronov was the first to give me the feeling, this is what a complete skate feels like. There's no denying a clean skate, and this was enhanced by his joy and his genuine response to audience response. He's not just there for the result and placement; he loves skating and this is readily apparent at 29 years old and continued efforts to be here.

Adam Rippon showed why he continues to climb in esteem. His LP isn't there for me yet, 10 days or so after switching; but I'm not worried about that. He'll develop it step by step. His SP is glorious Adam already. I loved his shirt; he has gorgeous shoulders and why did the sport change the rules to allow it if not for spectators to appreciate? I'm amused by disapproving remarks, especially in light of the many admirers of tight pants on male skaters. Adam and Jason have both said they're committed to not letting go of their programs and what they do best, whether or not the quad gets landed on a particular day. That isn't easy, with reporters/fans/whoever asking a version of but what about the quads? They both keep in the front of their minds what makes their own skating sparkle. Bravo!

Shoma Uno is the complete package, no doubt about it. Gorgeous jumps, musical attention and connection, and focus. I love this kid.

The look on Jason Brown's face at the end said it all. He'll never forget that moment: how it felt to land his first quad in a program; and he was smart enough to be aiming for that feeling, before it happened. That's keeping your eyes on the true prize. But much more than that, he committed every inch of his body to every second of that thrilling, emotionally resonating program. :love:

His first landed quad also points out the absurdity of UR scoring. It depends on the perception of ONE tech caller. Around here, people who heap scorn on other skaters for under-rotating and every time say the call was "generous" are now saying that Jason's 4T was also incorrectly called, in the opposite direction, even though some in the live audience said they could see it. It's easy to see the correlation: the calling of a UR can be influenced by the eye of the beholder; it depends on whether you like that skater and his skating or dislike him. Or even are neutral, which gives rise to: okay, kid, prove it to me. To give one tech judge that power when every human can make an honest mistake is questionable. I'm looking forward to a future where that is corrected, and also where landing jumps and quality are as important as risk. This is an artistic sport; figure skating's insane athleticism and accompanying artistry make it unique among sports.

Sugarpova · Oct 24, 2016

general thoughts

Disappointed for Boyang (love both proramms!! :love:

) & T/M & maybe expected in US but B/S losing to H/D :palmf:

Blast - Ashley's SP, S/B FS & Kana/Chris in dance & ofc Serg! what a nice skate for a nice person:luv17:
yeah & Nam is back! :yahoo:

TGee · Oct 24, 2016

iamchrislao said:
Funny. Are you aware that katarina witt was off podium in the 1994 olympics? How about the failed comeback of midori ito? Did these change their legendary status? Exactly. As sasha said, quoting from janet lyn (sorry about the spellings), why come back? What if you fail? "Nothing you do in this sport can ever be taken away from you." Sasha herself didnt make the vancouver team. Yet we know sasha is sasha. Ballerina on ice. Anyway point is, cut mao some slack. Heck, cut these legends some slack. They have made this sport great. Skating makes them happy. Let them skate. They deserve no less. And ill take mao's skating (even without the jumps) anytime over rough skates overwrought with moves for the sake of points. I take offense at comments dismissive of the sacrifices of these incredible athletes. just amazing how we arrive at conclusions as mere spectators.

Midori Ito has also come back and competed as an adult...partly to show that skating can be a life-long sport...but with a "Desire to Inspire"

Many thought it was a risk, and she didn't get the gold at ISU adult worlds master level, but she skated!

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...to-inspire-prompted-itos-return/#.WA4o8eArJPY

From this perspective, is Mao still an inspiration? Absolutely!

Is she continuing to push the boundaries of the sport? No question.

jenm · Oct 24, 2016

I'm glad Mao was invited to skate at the Gala. Otherwise, we wouldn't have seen this gem.

jenaj · Oct 24, 2016

^Mao showed everyone why she's a skating legend, no matter where she placed in the competition.

jenaj · Oct 24, 2016

GGFan said:
Good points. I wonder if in the US we're down to just a couple venues (e.g. Boston, San Jose) we can consistently fill. It's sad to see.

Boston-- theTD Garden-- was mostly filled for Worlds, where many people travel in from all over the world. Even then, tickets were available right up to the events for everything except the ladies long. The ice dance short was sparsely attended. There's no way a venue that large would be filled for Skate America. The Sears Centre is pretty big, so the fact that it wasn't sold out doesn't mean there wasn't a big crowd. On Saturday night, I didn't go because of the Cubs game. I'm sure others didn't as well--plus Pairs and Ice Dance are not the biggest draw. Friday night traffic made the Ladies short event difficult for many people who live in the city to attend--they would have had to leave work early and fight rush hour and airport traffic to make it there by 7:00. 11:30 on Sunday was also an odd time to start the men's long.

Mrs. P · Oct 24, 2016

I think one big factor is that USFS -- WHY -- scheduled the Upper Great Lakes regional in Minnesota, that same weekend. All the Chicagoland skaters are in that regional, so you lost a huge chunk of potential attendees right there.

padme21 · Oct 24, 2016

While I wasn't a fan of Shoma's FS (the music didn't work for me much like the Shibutani's short dance music cuts) I loved his SP as I'm a big fan of Joshua Bell and "Fantasy for the Violin and Orchestra" is one of my favorite pieces he's played. His first GP win well done!

I'm going to have to say the performance of the night went to hands-down Jason Brown loved his FS!

Adam continues to surprise. I did not expect to see him on the podium.(I didn't expect Jason Brown either.)

Nam well done! Considering where he was last season 6th place is a huge improvement! It looks like the coaching change was the right move for him now that he's nearly got all his jumps back. Hopefully he won't grown anymore.

mrrice · Oct 24, 2016

Sugarpova said:
general thoughts

Disappointed for Boyang (love both proramms!!) & T/M & maybe expected in US but B/S losing to H/D

Blast - Ashley's SP, S/B FS & Kana/Chris in dance & ofc Serg! what a nice skate for a nice person:luv17:
yeah & Nam is back!

I agree, especially about Nam. He is the cutest thing. It really surprised me what a big deal it became here in Central Ca. when Nam moved to San Jose. The headline was like..." A Skating Star From Canada Has Flown South For The Winter. " We'll talk to Nam Nguyen when we come back.

skylark · Oct 24, 2016

Incandescently beautiful skates in Pairs: Julianne Seguin/Charlie Bilodeau, and Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier. Their genuine joy in being able to skate and share their love of skating with audiences is clear. Haven and Brandon actually made me love a piece of music that before, I'd always disliked as schmaltzy. I like Coughlin's comment that Haven and Brandon's relationship gives them an unspoken understanding of their characters.

Tarah Kayne and Danny O'Shea proved their mettle. From being dead last after the SP, they rallied and performed to earn the third-highest score in the LP. (do they get a small medal in a GP event?) That is character and grit. I love their FS already and look forward to seeing it again.

I had a hunch about Mariah Bell; I predicted her to win bronze here; and I'm thrilled that she won silver. Those two programs bring out her "it" factor brilliantly; and in gorgeous contrast to each other. As do, yet again, Ashley Wagner's two programs. Yes, children, Ashley's presence on the ice, charisma, and musical and emotional expression give her an "it" factor. It's great to see them both bring strong presence and strong competitive mind-set to what they needed to accomplish at this point in the season.

In dance, Elliana Pogrebinsky/Alex Benoit gave two stand-out performances, for me. SD showed acting chops with Elvis; FD showed incredible strengh, grace and musicality to skate a slow sustained style that kept my attention riveted; I was in the performance and in the moment with them.

Another high point of the FD for me were Isabella and Ilia, the skaters representing Israel; sorry I don't have their last names handy. But I can see them in my mind's eye, striking those gorgeous lift positions that exquisitely called to mind performances of Tchaikovsky's ballet. And their skating itself maintained that beauty, mood and form. As much as I watched Isabella perfectly embodying the ballerina, I also watched Ilia. With his gorgeous expression through movement, he did as much dancing as she did, to great effect.

TGee · Oct 24, 2016

mrrice said:
I agree, especially about Nam. He is the cutest thing. It really surprised me what a big deal it became here in Central Ca. when Nam moved to San Jose. The headline was like..." A Skating Star From Canada Has Flown South For The Winter. " We'll talk to Nam Nguyen when we come back.

The version here seems to be that the West Coast guy [Nam is originally from British Columbia] is happy and healing now that he's back with trees.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figureskating/video#id=791136323701

Barb · Oct 24, 2016

Daniel1998 said:
Denney and Frazier were a huge surprise for me, because as a relatively new fan of figure skating, I wasn't familiar with them prior to this competition. I'm in love with their programs and chemistry, and hope they'll get a Worlds berth. Something about them is so appealing and charming.

.

You should see their ¨The lion king¨program, lovely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXlo4AV6leg

ks777 · Oct 24, 2016

for me,

1. Mariah Bell
2. Adam Rippon
3. Mai
4. Shoma and Jason

Although I never been a Jason Brown fan but I really enjoyed his skating here.

CoyoteChris · Oct 24, 2016

Mrs. P said:
I think one big factor is that USFS -- WHY -- scheduled the Upper Great Lakes regional in Minnesota, that same weekend. All the Chicagoland skaters are in that regional, so you lost a huge chunk of potential attendees right there.

You would think so, wouldnt you? It would stand to reason.
But when I went to SA Ontario California, next to LA. No one showed up. Free practice sessions...just walk through the door...no one showed up. Billions of skating clubs in the area...no one showed up. It was a good group of skaters too.

Your thoughts on Skate America

Jaana

gotoschool

iamchrislao

miki88

iamchrislao

Tolstoj

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist

TGee

jenm

The Last One Degree

jenaj

jenaj

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

padme21

mrrice

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset

TGee

Barb

ks777

CoyoteChris

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