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Thread: New Tanith and Ben articles on citizenship, with pictures!

  1. #16
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    citizenship

    Perhaps instead of lobbying immigration, the Olympic Committee ought to be lobbied to change the rule to match Worlds - that only one member of the team needs to be a citizen.

    There is a precedent, BTW. In equestrian sports, no one cares one whit about the citizenship of one member of the partnership. Neigh!!!

    Linny

  2. #17
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealtorGal
    No offense to Tanith, and I do hope she gets her citizenship soon. However, there are many others ahead of her who don't have such high profiles but who are anxious to receive THEIR citizenship. Each of those people has his or her own story, too, which is just as important--at least as far as they are concerned.
    That could be another reason why Tanith isn't bugging them to hurry it up. She understands that the world does not revolve around her or her skating and that there'll always be 2010, while disappointing I'm glad they're not making too big a deal about this whole thing.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think so, too, Toni.

    , Linny. BTW, there are a lot of Russians skating for various countries. Is Anassina a French citizan? Is Peter Tschernyshev a U.S. citizen? Is Alisa Drei a citizen of Finland?

    There are also Americans skating for countries that their ancestors came from generations ago, like Sydney Vogel.

    According the the Law of Return, could Sasha Cohen skate for Israel?

    MM
    Last edited by Mathman; 07-28-2004 at 12:07 PM.

  4. #19
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Peter is US citizen; Marina is a citizen of France (don't know about Alisa). I recall a few years back Peter getting a lot of flack because in the post-competition interview, when asked how he felt about become a citizen, he answered that it was great because he could now skate in the Olympics; apparently, he was supposed to talk instead about his American patriotism.

    The current rules only say that switching countries forces skater to skip one season. This rule was pushed through by Russia when all their skaters started defecting to other federations.

    BTW, all countries have very different approaches to citizenship. US, luckily, has a very methodical approach (as opposed to the US approach to granting permanent residency, a pre-requisite for citizenship). France, for example, it totally different. They gave Marina citizenship when they felt like it, yet people can be born and live their whole lives there without ever having the right to vote.

  5. #20
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    Law of Return?

    Methinks someone misunderstood totally. I never implied that people should return to countries of origin or whatever it was that was read in there.

    I only suggested that the Olympic committee ought to stop requiring both members of a team to be citizens of the country they wish to represent at the Olympics. It should be enough that Ben is a USA citizen, it should have been enough that Naomi was a USA citizen. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

    Personally, I'd drop the whole countries thing altogether... but fans seem to like the "team" concept that comes with the Olympics, so I guess my wish for a sporting event where the best of the best from all over the world get together and wow the rest of us in peace and harmony... guess it isn't going to come true.

    If, at least, they'd drop the "both" issue for skating partnerships, it would be a step in the right direction. Imagine.

    Linny

  6. #21
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Linny, I think many FS fans would like to "drop the whole countries thing altogether". There is, however, just a little tiny issue of funding. Federations pay for young athletes to train so they can later on "bring the glory home".

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Linny, when I mentioned the Jewish Law of Return, it wasn't in rsponse to your suggestion about requiring only one partner to be a citizen of the country that the team represents. I was just musing about how easy or hard it might be to declare yourself a citizen of different countries, for purposes of trying out for the Olympic team.

    http://www.lectlaw.com/files/int16.htm

    I read the other day that in the coming summer Olympics, the Greek baseball team has only two Greeks on it. All the rest are American citizens, most born and raised in the U.S., who have some kind of Greek ancestry.

    About "dropping the whole coutries thing altogether," that would mean discontinuing the Olympic Games and instead having World Championships in several sports at the same time. Only every four years we would say, this World Championship is more Champion-y than the last three years'.

    To me, that is exactly the difference between the Olympics and Worlds. At Worlds, you try to see who is the best skater. At the Olys you try to see which country can win the most medals.

    Mathman

  8. #23
    GOLDEN DREAMS RealtorGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    According the the Law of Return, could Sasha Cohen skate for Israel?
    No, but I don't know what the law states in the Ukraine. Israeli citizenship is no longer automatic for Jews. There is a waiting period. After applying for citizenship, there is a one-year waiting period and rather than carrying a passport in that time period, you carry "travel documents". At least that is the way it was when I lived there--things may have changed since that time.

  9. #24
    Keeper of Michelle's Nose berthes ghost's Avatar
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    I don't know, the whole concept of the modern Oly and worlds, since they began over a 100 years ago was athletes representing their country. If you want to support radical change, like abolishing country representation so events are more like pro skating, that's one thing, and fodder for a whole separate thread probably. As it is though, the whole system is set up that countries compete against each other, as it always has been. Allowing skaters to switch countries whenever they feel like is going against the system IMHO. Within the switches that happened, I think that there are a variety of experiences.

    For example, if someone honestly emegrates to another country that they now make their home, like the Jelnicks, that would make sense for them to represent their new home.

    Also, skaters like Lili Lee who most probably would never have made a world team skating for the US, but represented a country with no quality skaters and helped Korea get it's skating program off the ground. That I don't have such a problem with.

    But skaters like Dianne De Leeuw, who did it for purely selfish reason (she got to skate more, earlier. All that extra skating did'nt seem to help her beat Hamill though) don't get my sympathy. How is she really represnting the Netherlands, she never lived nor trained there. The occasional visit to Grandma doesn't cut it with me, not when so many other skaters are working so hard to accomplish the same.

    I hardly find curruption a justifiable reason, re: the Duchesnays. And come'on Marrina, we all know that Russia has the most and the best Ice Dance males on the planet, you realy just had to skate with either Gwendell or Viktor?

    Since the country representation concept is still in place, letting skaters change willy-nilly doesn't make any sense. I don't imagine that Canada would have appreciated Rob McCall, Brian Orser, Babara Ann Scott or Rob Paul representing teh US, I'm sure that they're none to happy about Tanith either.

  10. #25
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthes ghost
    And come'on Marrina, we all know that Russia has the most and the best Ice Dance males on the planet, you realy just had to skate with either Gwendell or Viktor?
    Basically, after Lininchuk broke up Ilya and Marina, she would have almost no chance of ever skating competitively in Russia. Lininchuk was just too powerful at the time, and other coaches would not take her. Is it corruption? Well, I'd rather think that reasons why one of the best ice dancers would be locked out is the corruption.

    Also, this thread started by being about Tanith and Ben. With them, I stand by my opinion that switching countries for one of them (either one) was fully justifiable to skate together.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealtorGal
    Israeli citizenship is no longer automatic for Jews. There is a waiting period. After applying for citizenship, there is a one-year waiting period
    I believe it is still like that. If I recall, they changed the rules after an American Jew went to Israel to avoid prosecution in the US; back then, he got his citizenship immediately, and Israeli law prevented the authorities from handing him over to the US. That's when, I believe, the changed the rules.
    Last edited by Ptichka; 07-30-2004 at 03:06 PM.

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