- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
I am rather bored with ice dance now. I am ready and excited for pairs! Though future looks clean for ladies, I see a glimmer of hope with some young skater, so I am always excited for US ladies.
Last edited:
What will happen to US ladies after 2018?
- Thread starter MarinHondas
- Start date
I am rather bored with ice dance now. I am ready and excited for pairs! Though future looks clean for ladies, I see a glimmer of hope with some young skater, so I am always excited for US ladies.
What is boring about ice dance? Is it the 3 teams in the JGPF or the 3 teams in the GPF that bore you?
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2014
- Country
-
Here is Liza's You Tube from the other thread. Wasn't this in one of the U.S. sectionals? And to think she's only 15! I'm ready to cheer for Liza!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShChdJvtYfQ
Last edited:
Not only are there no U.S. junior ladies in the JGPF this season. There are none even close. (Tessa Hong was 22nd, and she was the top ranked U.S. lady on the JGP).
Things are not actually that bad. She would have been higher if the U.S. had sent her to two events. Also hopefully, Vivien Le will come through the injury issues she has been facing this season. And Bradie and Karen are both young and opted to compete at the senior level rather than on the JGP.
However, there is a significant shift going on with relation to the ladies discipline on the international scene at the junior level.
Even with a bad day from Gracie & Ashley, the U.S. has always been able to count on the fact that Russia & Japan can only send three ladies to Worlds. (Essentially, the U.S. could generally count on at least a 7th & 8th place even when our top girls had a bad day. And they generally haven't had two bad days in a row). That "safety net" is changing at the JGP level because Korea is coming on strong. The Korean ladies defeated the Americans in every event on the JGP this season. They are going to be competitive.
So we have a lot of young U.S. ladies with talent--Karen, Mariah, Vivien, Tessa--but not a lot consistency. (Or rather, they are all consistently inconsistent). Then we have some less flashy athletes who might turn out to be better competitors. And we have some young jumpers coming up onto the JGP in the future. We'll have to see how they do internationally. Polina seems like a big question mark right now, but she could make a big difference in leading this generation if she returns to the scene.
Or Ashley, Gracie, and Mirai might just want to keep on going.
Things are not actually that bad. She would have been higher if the U.S. had sent her to two events. Also hopefully, Vivien Le will come through the injury issues she has been facing this season. And Bradie and Karen are both young and opted to compete at the senior level rather than on the JGP.
However, there is a significant shift going on with relation to the ladies discipline on the international scene at the junior level.
Even with a bad day from Gracie & Ashley, the U.S. has always been able to count on the fact that Russia & Japan can only send three ladies to Worlds. (Essentially, the U.S. could generally count on at least a 7th & 8th place even when our top girls had a bad day. And they generally haven't had two bad days in a row). That "safety net" is changing at the JGP level because Korea is coming on strong. The Korean ladies defeated the Americans in every event on the JGP this season. They are going to be competitive.
So we have a lot of young U.S. ladies with talent--Karen, Mariah, Vivien, Tessa--but not a lot consistency. (Or rather, they are all consistently inconsistent). Then we have some less flashy athletes who might turn out to be better competitors. And we have some young jumpers coming up onto the JGP in the future. We'll have to see how they do internationally. Polina seems like a big question mark right now, but she could make a big difference in leading this generation if she returns to the scene.
Or Ashley, Gracie, and Mirai might just want to keep on going.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2014
Ashley has a tendency to go complete opposite of what everyone is thinking, so don't be surprised if she sticks around after 2018...
She herself has said if she still loves it and her body can handle it, she doesn't see why she would stop. I think it also depends on her results over the rest of this season/next season. We'll see!!
She herself has said if she still loves it and her body can handle it, she doesn't see why she would stop. I think it also depends on her results over the rest of this season/next season. We'll see!!
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
well since this is a US ladies thread, I'll try to keep within the thread, but to answer your question....before V/M, I was very disinterested in ice dance. Although V/M have come back, I don't feel the same excitement anymore, I guess I just want to see a fresh couple that will impress me the same way they did. A lot of people are talking about P/C, but I feel nothing from watching them....their style is more like modern dance/freestyle, but they lack a connection with each other, and so their movements can look cheesy, kind of like contemporary/free dance from that show, So You Think You Can Dance. There is no order to their movements, their bodies are free to move however they like, but I don't understand that kind of dance, I think it looks too cheesy/dramatic/fake both on the dance floor and on ice. You know, Ashley's long program to exogenesis, in some parts of her choreography, I find it so cheesy/dramatic/fake, especially the part where she grabs her neck in front of the judges. So in watching both Ashley exogenesis skate and P/C's dance, I ask myself, what the hell are they trying to express? Is this suppose to be considered a higher form of art? Like a Picasso painting? or a painting with blobs of paint splattered on it? I don't get it.
Sorry, I'm not good at explaining things.To keep within the thread, I think there are a few juniors/novice that will keep the US ladies relevant. We may not make the podium, but that's ok.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
wow that would be great! but for some reason I feel like Ash's new life after FS wont be conncted with it:think:
I totally would be up for her continuing after 2018!
As for US ladies in general my favs for the future are Polina & Karen
I agree with this. I think Ashley is like Michelle Kwan in this way. She loves the competition/ the winning and likes performing less. I'm not saying I can't see her touring for a year or two, but I don't see her being a long-term tourer or a coach/ choreographer. She'll be almost 27 after Pyeongchang and she seems to have a lot of other interests away from skating. I bet she'll want to explore those things without skating much to make up for lost time.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
hopefully not involved in politics
hmm I dont think she doesnt like performing. Imo both winning & performing. She has natural sass & acting ability & she clearly likes the enegize people who watch her perform.
hmm Maybe she indeed will be touring & this will be enough for her but without winning it may lose some of the appeal.
Or Maybe she will be doing tv commentary & some specials!? I can absolutely see her as this snarky commentator!
:agree:
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
Honestly, I think the U.S. ladies are in trouble. Its not even really a question of talent, it's a question of consistency. Consistency is key for the US ladies right now. Look at the talents of mariah bell, of karen chen, of paige rydberg, etc, etc.......the talent is there, but the US ladies can't perform when it counts. Not at all. I don't know how Russian and Japanese ladies do it. The skating schools there must be doing something right. Seriously, those girls are like, "Pressure? Pfft! Puh-leez, pressure makes diamonds."
I think U.S. skating needs to take a page from the book of Russian and Japanese skating and get our US ladies prepared to COMPETE. Imagine if karen and mariah and tyler could put out clean performances 90 percent of the time? Would you be worried for U.S. ladies past 2018?
So, I'm predicting the US ladies will fall in the standings once ashley and gracie retire.
it's so frustrating! And yet, these two retireing will finally give other skaters a chance.
I think U.S. skating needs to take a page from the book of Russian and Japanese skating and get our US ladies prepared to COMPETE. Imagine if karen and mariah and tyler could put out clean performances 90 percent of the time? Would you be worried for U.S. ladies past 2018?
So, I'm predicting the US ladies will fall in the standings once ashley and gracie retire.
it's so frustrating! And yet, these two retireing will finally give other skaters a chance.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Oh come on folks this is not all doom and gloom. The US have the world silver medallist in Ashley and still if she skates cleanly probably the gold medallist in Gracie. Yes, Polina is coming back from injury but you have a tonne of other top ten skaters. Do you really think Donald Trump would allow the US to fall apart into disgrace lol???? Things aren't that bad, yes, Russia and Japan have some strong skaters but none with the wow of Gracie if she gets it together.
The question is if they are able to get it together. I think a lot of members have highlighted that consistency is key. Ashley is a bit of a roller coaster to watch. Who knew after making 3GPF podiums and off a world podium finish she would not make the GPF this year? Gracie also needs to get into competitive shape and Polina is nursing injuries right now. This thread is also about the future of US figure skating after 2018.
I don't think Trump is relevant in this conversation. He has bigger issues to worry about than a small sport figure skating. Let's not bring in politics.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
Honestly, I think the U.S. ladies are in trouble. Its not even really a question of talent, it's a question of consistency. Consistency is key for the US ladies right now. Look at the talents of mariah bell, of karen chen, of paige rydberg, etc, etc.......the talent is there, but the US ladies can't perform when it counts. Not at all. I don't know how Russian and Japanese ladies do it. The skating schools there must be doing something right. Seriously, those girls are like, "Pressure? Pfft! Puh-leez, pressure makes diamonds."
I think U.S. skating needs to take a page from the book of Russian and Japanese skating and get our US ladies prepared to COMPETE. Imagine if karen and mariah and tyler could put out clean performances 90 percent of the time? Would you be worried for U.S. ladies past 2018?
So, I'm predicting the US ladies will fall in the standings once ashley and gracie retire.
I agree BD, I made it to a couple of major international events this year and to see the Russians, Japanese and Koreans live is something else. Their official and unofficial practice sessions are a clinic of how to prepare for a competition and even their 6 minute warm-ups are amazing and fully focused. These gals practice edge quality, footwork, spins and throw around 3-3s like they are basic jumps and they do it in repetition, from start to finish - they also want to do their programs every chance they get so they can WIN. I have not seen any US lady who has done this which is why, IMO, there is generally a huge gap between these countries and the US.
I personally think it is oftentimes a matter of instant gratification. Every one gets super excited when Mariah does well at SA and she is glorified as the next superstar rather than just being told great job, lets get back to the basics and wait to see if she can do it again, again and again. Same thing happened to Karen several years ago, she made the podium her first year as a Sr and it was as if she just won her 5th title (now many are suggesting she change coaches because she did not do too well at her last GP assignments). Haley, at the Novice level last year, same thing.....The US needs to look long-term and help these young gals realize that you need to win consistently to be the best, you need to land your jumps consistently before you truly have the jump, etc....
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I'm not going to blame the attitude of fans. Does people getting all excited about Mariah's performance at SA make Mariah a better or worse skater or impact her attitude towards her own skating? I doubt it.
The lack of internal competition hurts itself. Mariah's SA LP was standout for an American lady, but just another day at the office for any Russian lady. But from a domestic standpoint, it's exciting. And it won't stop being exciting until a higher standard is set - which is hard to do when there aren't legions of girls fighting tooth and nail.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Consistency of Russian girls is very easy to understand - behind each of them we do know there are hundreds of other girls which did not make through the ranks. Thus those who made it to the top are not only most talented but with nerves of steel and a killer instinct- a process of natural selection if you wish.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
I've noticed in the junior ranks that many of the US girls are all about jumping. The finesse of the program isn't the focus. We need to develop skaters that have both the jumping capability AND the skating skills to continue to compete internationally.
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
According to many on this board social media plays a large role in one's mental state so while I agree with you, that a strong/independent/mature athlete who grew up with social media should not be impacted by what is said about her on a daily basis, many would disagree.
However, and more to the point, I was not referring so much to fans as I was to Federation.....Watching the last GP I heard that it is almost impossible to separate the Russian skaters who are ranked 3-18. If a skater is not in the mix, she is basically left for dead and all alone (old Russian style). That type of mentality does not exist here, in fact, someone recently told me that the old MIF tests that were once PASS or FAIL are now PASS or RETRY.
You're 1000% correct, the need for internal competition is desperately lacking in the US. How do we fix that? It seems as though USFS is desperately seeking to find a talent who can compete rather than pushing all girls to compete at their highest levels and then picking the best of the best while letting competitors/coaches decide who stays in the sport to compete or for recreational purposes only. This also makes me question the motives of many coaches, some whom seem to be coaching to make a living rather than making a living as a coach who truly developes talent. I would imagine it is difficult for a coach to have 40 students ranging from 6-15 years of age to produce any real talent long-term at the only level that really matters - the Sr level.......
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2016
The Jr level all about jumping - my thoughts exactly. Heck, the USFS thinks giving competitors bonus points to take bigger jumps from Juv-Nov is the best way to develop talent, though it seems as though it is producing bad technique and a bunch of kids who only know how to take UR jumps. Jumping at the Jr level or lower will get you to the podium at the Jr level or lower, but without everything else you will always be a has been or someone who had so much unrealized potential. Not to mention letting a truly talented athlete pick up bad habits at an early age is a very dangerous long term for that athlete.
Looking across the country at many skaters and their respective levels, it seems as though many Russian coaches are pushing nothing more than jumping - perhaps because this is the easiest form of skating development for parents to see, feel good about and pay for more lessons as it results in short-term success and more new students. The problem is that this does not generate long-term success in skating and this could be one of the many problems in the US. I can remember when there used to several top coaches who would let a skater "try out" with them and if they made the cut, they could skate with some assistant coaches to get much better before skating with the Head Coach (a program similar to that of Orser in Canada). Not so sure if that still exists here in the US, probably not as someone may view this as being unfair to the masses......
