Virtue & Moir vs. Papadakis & Cizeron

pETEs (Sasha Fan) · Jan 1, 2017

Virtue & Moir. Papadkis & Cizeron.

Arguably the top two dancing teams in the world. Both under the tutelage of Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon. Both two-time World Champions (yet the first are already Olympic Champions). The first, the seasoned ones; the latter, the up-n-risings.

Which team is the stronger and most likely to win its third world title? Argument your answer.

RABID · Jan 1, 2017

I'll bite! P&C because it is a different ball game than when it was V&M against Davis and White. I believe the judging this time around is less prone to get locked into one team where by other teams have to "beat them". This time around with two sets of teams that are tonally related it is, "beat the scores". So I don't think one team is better than the other as much as I'm throwing the dice and guessing that this time around P&C will edge out V&M. Should be a great Olympics if these two teams are on top of their game.

katha · Jan 2, 2017

I've no idea who will win what, so I won't get into that discussion. What has happened though IMO is that V/M's comeback has sort of brought to daylight where P/C have weaknesses. With the other dance pairs, because P/C are so outstanding at what they do well and the others can't quite keep up, what they're trying to hide didn't make much of an impact. But now there's V/M and they are matching them or even surpassing them in aspects...and suddenly you notice that they're not always the most convincing in SDs. That their twizzles and lifts could be more difficult. That Gabriella is visibly the weaker partner in the pair, compared to V/M where you have two equally strong partners. So in that sense it's exciting, since in the last two years it seemed like P/C would be coasting to titles without having to challenge themselves and without having to improve in areas they don't do so well. Now with V/M in the mix the game has changed.

Lutzlvr · Jan 2, 2017

I really like both teams. Given clean skates, Virtue & Moir (WAY better SD and their FD is growing on me). V&M's skating is so sharp and precise, their connection and storytelling unparalleled, lifts are more difficult, but look effortless. I have to say, I was very impressed with P&C in Boston- wasn't a fan until I saw them live (really admire their speed, flow, Guillaume's extension)...LOVED their SD and FD from last season, not so much this season. P&C just seem a little more guarded, not skating with the abandon and attack of last season, and I was really hoping to see something different from them.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 2, 2017

I give edge to V/M. P/C have stagnated a bit in terms of bringing something new to the table (which is hard to defend, of course). But V/M aren't just resting on their laurels (which we have seen with other figure skaters who make comebacks) and are actually more improved and evolved from where they left off.

As mentioned, the key is Gabriella - she lacks Tessa's presence and technical consistency (even Maia for that matter) and if they want to get the OGM she needs to up her game.

Crossover · Jan 2, 2017

I don't know yet. V/M beat P/C twice already, but the Worlds will be held in Europe and I think P/C learned a lesson from the two competition with V/M.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Jan 2, 2017

Crossover said:
I don't know yet. V/M beat P/C twice already, but the Worlds will be held in Europe and I think P/C learned a lesson from the two competition with V/M.

But the GPF was held in *France*.

Crossover · Jan 2, 2017

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
But the GPF was held in *France*.

I know. But some skaters tend to get more nervous when they compete with their biggest rivals at their home. V/M were also beaten by D/W at home back in 2013 (though I don't agree with the judging).

Ares · Jan 2, 2017

katha said:
I've no idea who will win what, so I won't get into that discussion. What has happened though IMO is that V/M's comeback has sort of brought to daylight where P/C have weaknesses. With the other dance pairs, because P/C are so outstanding at what they do well and the others can't quite keep up, what they're trying to hide didn't make much of an impact. But now there's V/M and they are matching them or even surpassing them in aspects...and suddenly you notice that they're not always the most convincing in SDs. That their twizzles and lifts could be more difficult. That Gabriella is visibly the weaker partner in the pair, compared to V/M where you have two equally strong partners. So in that sense it's exciting, since in the last two years it seemed like P/C would be coasting to titles without having to challenge themselves and without having to improve in areas they don't do so well. Now with V/M in the mix the game has changed.

While it's true that Guillaume is stronger of the two ... at GPF it was Gabriella who skated cleaner. The biggest advantage V/M have that they're pretty much equal and sharper.

olayolay · Jan 2, 2017

P/C just aren't as versatile as V/M are. They're outstanding at the one style they do well, but struggle with other variations. Which is why next year's rhumba ought to be very interesting. Either P/C adapt and improve, because my gut feeling is that V/M will outscore them considerably with a Latin SD.

TontoK · Jan 2, 2017

As to who will win? Ice is slippery.

But V/M are the better team. Without question.

peepsquick · Jan 2, 2017

TontoK said:
As to who will win? Ice is slippery.

But V/M are the better team. Without question.

Absolutely disagree with that. V/M are good but as good as they are (and they do make mistakes), they don't blow me away. Their (sometimes spectacular) lifts draw a lot of people but, to me, they don't bring the shift and magic in ice dance that P/C bring. P/C tend to loose points because they work more on artistic expression and impact than on athleticism and traditional ice dance moves. Both teams are very good, the rest is a matter of taste. No better team here, just DIFFERENT ones!

olayolay · Jan 2, 2017

peepsquick said:
Absolutely disagree with that. V/M are good but as good as they are (and they do make mistakes), they don't blow me away. Their (sometimes spectacular) lifts draw a lot of people but, to me, they don't bring the shift and magic in ice dance that P/C bring. P/C tend to loose points because they work more on artistic expression and impact than on athleticism and traditional ice dance moves. Both teams are very good, the rest is a matter of taste. No better team here, just DIFFERENT ones!

It's so funny how people used to say this exact thing about V/M vs. D/W.

SnowWhite · Jan 2, 2017

I agree that anything can happen, but I would bet on V/M winning it. I prefer their free dance to P/C's but I really like them both. Two beautiful pieces. The difference for me is the short dance. I adore V/M's short dance and while I also enjoy P/C's, for me it isn't on the same level. Personally, I think that V/M are the stronger team. Now that's an opinion obviously, so feel free to disagree, but with V/M having beaten them twice already, I would think that at this moment at least, they are the favourites.

chezzu · Jan 2, 2017

peepsquick said:
Absolutely disagree with that. V/M are good but as good as they are (and they do make mistakes), they don't blow me away. Their (sometimes spectacular) lifts draw a lot of people but, to me, they don't bring the shift and magic in ice dance that P/C bring. P/C tend to loose points because they work more on artistic expression and impact than on athleticism and traditional ice dance moves. Both teams are very good, the rest is a matter of taste. No better team here, just DIFFERENT ones!

Ice dance is a sport. A lot of it is subjective, I will admit -- but in the objective areas, V/M (and several other teams) blow P/C out of the water. I'm still mad that P/C are scoring 9.43 to V/M's 9.50 in Skating Skills. I can't. Even. What.

I won't go into the free dances because fine it's more subjective and subject to judges' whims, and I guess I won't go into the lifts because there are other criteria than the athleticism and power that goes into lifts. But honestly speaking "magic" should not be winning SDs for P/C, when their footwork isn't as precise or as clean as V/M's. "Magic" shouldn't be covering up Gabriella's weaknesses and two-footed skating, nor should "magic" be covering up Gui's stumbles (THEY GOT +2 ON THAT GPF PARTIAL STEP -- GUI MISSED A DOUBLE TWIZZLE, WHICH IS CRUCIAL. I DON'T UNDERSTAND), or their lack of matching leg lines. V/M's lethal weapon this year is their SD -- aside from showcasing Tessa and Scott's strengths, it also highlights P/C's weaknesses especially when skated one after another.

The free dance is fair game. V/M are more versatile; P/C absolutely EXCELS at their flowy contemporary style. The judges don't care about versatility in the free -- they care about the execution on the day itself, which is fair. In the GPF I thought P/C actually had a slightly better free than V/M.

In the upcoming Worlds, P/C would benefit A LOT if they don't skate next to V/M in either segment.

Who would win in a battle between the two? Ice is slippery, but when absolutely clean, V/M should take it. The judges know this.

peepsquick · Jan 2, 2017

I agree with you that P/C had a weak SD performance in the GPF. It happens to everybody, even V/M. Their own performance got better during the season. They had quite a few missteps and baubles up to GPF. V/M are more seasoned skaters that P/C and might have a technical edge in the SD. I disagree with you about reducing Ice dance to a strictly technical skill. It is a hybrid between sport and art or could be. I just belong to people appreciating the beauty of P/C 's skating over the technical skills of other teams.

topaz emerald · Jan 2, 2017

pETEs (Sasha Fan) said:
Virtue & Moir. Papadkis & Cizeron.

Arguably the top two dancing teams in the world. Both under the tutelage of Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon. Both two-time World Champions (yet the first are already Olympic Champions). The first, the seasoned ones; the latter, the up-n-risings.

Which team is the stronger and most likely to win its third world title? Argument your answer.

P/C came out of nowhere all of a sudden and won a world medal. I thought that's a little suspicious. But whatever...

I thought V/M had to work hard to earn their gold world medal.

chezzu · Jan 2, 2017

peepsquick said:
I disagree with you about reducing Ice dance to a strictly technical skill. It is a hybrid between sport and art or could be. I just belong to people appreciating the beauty of P/C 's skating over the technical skills of other teams.

I did not say that ice dance is "strictly technical" -- I admitted it has a lot of subjective aspects and it's ok for P/C to be winning these subjective aspects. But the SD does have technical aspects (namely, the pattern dance and the keypoints), and SS SHOULD be a technical aspect. But alas, this is IJS and the Olympics are nearing and scores are crazy. So I guess I accept what's happening.

For what it's worth I would love it if neither of these teams win hehe I'm a W/P uber. It's not gonna happen though

pETEs (Sasha Fan) · Jan 2, 2017

topaz emerald said:
P/C came out of nowhere all of a sudden and won a world medal. I thought that's a little suspicious. But whatever...

I thought V/M had to work hard to earn their gold world medal.

I disagree with you on seeing P/C first World title with a lifted brow: they came out of nowhere and won a WGM just because they were phenomenal and outshone every single team that time; if they were strictly good in 2015, the following year they were ridiculously good... sublime.

topaz emerald · Jan 2, 2017

pETEs (Sasha Fan) said:
I disagree with you on seeing P/C first World title with a lifted brow: they came out of nowhere and won a WGM just because they were phenomenal and outshone every single team that time; if they were strictly good in 2015, the following year they were ridiculously good... sublime.

I think I'm just getting bored with ice dance. I just feel like I've seen ice dance at its best already....by V/M. They were so incredibly good, that I feel they can't even top themselves anymore. I know the British commentators are in love with P/C. I do see a fluidity in their skating, but I don't see any connection. Maybe I don't find Guillame particularly handsome, lol :laugh:

I think the girl is very pretty though.

Virtue & Moir vs. Papadakis & Cizeron

pETEs (Sasha Fan)

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RABID

katha

Lutzlvr

CanadianSkaterGuy

Crossover

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CanadianSkaterGuy

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

Ares

olayolay

TontoK

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peepsquick

olayolay

SnowWhite

chezzu

peepsquick

topaz emerald

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chezzu

pETEs (Sasha Fan)

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topaz emerald

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