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Thread: Piseev and the Eastern Bloc

  1. #31
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    To me, the most telling comment from Le Gougne was when she said that the lobbying began way back in September, because ""They needed my vote,,, It was going to be very close."

    What was going to be very close? She can't be referring to the skating, because that hadn't happened yet. So to me, "close" must have meant that as soon as the nationalities of the judging panel were announced, people already knew how many B&S judges there were and how many S&P judges. As Madame Le Gougne goes on to say, she was targeted because she was "in the middle." Mathman
    Was there hanky panky going on back in september to ensure that there would be two sets of judges so that the results would be close? They were set for the onslaught and much depended on LeGougne taking orders from Didier. Why did Didier give those orders? Was it the Russians? It had to be for some reason, and I don't believe it was pay back. I think Candeloro deserved those medals.

    The BIG question if why was it not followed up by the ISU?

    Joe

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessLeppard
    PS In 1994, wasn't he one of the few men to actually stay on his feet?
    In the short program, yup.
    He was 5th in the long, but two of the guys who beat him had been 9th and 12th in the short, so guess who got the medal.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Oh, come on, K., you are just trying to spoil our fun!

    Plus, you have to admit, that Candeloro thing has to have SOME explanation!

    MM
    Well I just don't want people to think there is an Eastern bloc anymore because there isn't.

    Actually I think he deserved his bronze medals.

  4. #34
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    In compulsory dances as well as in original dance the Russian judge gave the placements for A&P in the same way as all the other judges (only one judge in each section gave A&P a 2 ). In freedance the Russian judge gave 1 to their own team.

    http://www.aya.or.jp/~polaris/winter_olympic/index.htm

    Marjaana

  5. #35
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koroleva
    Well I just don't want people to think there is an Eastern bloc anymore because there isn't.

    Actually I think he deserved his bronze medals.
    Koroleva - I don't think the eastern bloc exists anymore either, that is, those who do not have their roots of their language as slavic. However, there is a slavic cultural bloc in figures skating There are at least 11 slavic speacking Federations in Europe and the number grows when you take into account the numbers in Asia. I don't believe Piseev has complete control over the countries. He doesn;t have to. Their cultural likes and dislikes are all intertwined.

    You might say the English speaking countries are similar but they are not. They are scattered around the world and developed their own culture. Not all of them play cricket.. They never had a unified Leader, such as Krutschev. And many of them do not have figure skating federations.

    The cultural side of judging is very subliminal and very subjective. If there was no secrecy in judging one would see how certain Nations will judge the same for cultural reasons.

    Joe

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skate Sandee
    Yup. It occurs to me everytime someone makes the arguement that there was no deal since the Russian judge put the Russian dance pair first. If one part of a scandal gets uncovered before the plan is over, does anyone seriously believe that the plan would be carried out as planned? I mean "DUH"!

    If anything, the timing of the alleged scandal benfited the Russian judge because that person could go ahead and abandon the deal and vote whatever way he/she wanted (in this case for their own skaters).
    Ironically, the Russian judge you speak of is none other than Piseev's wife, Alla Shekhovtseva.

    The panel in SLC is almost identical to the panel in 1998 (differences were the absence of Canada and France, and the addition of Israel and Bulgaria). I personally never liked the fact that only the top ten countries in any discipline got to send judges for that event in the olympics under the old system.
    Last edited by thisthingcalledlove; 08-13-2004 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #37
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisthingcalledlove
    Ironically, the Russian judge you speak of is none other than Piseev's wife, Alla Shekhovtseva
    ... and she is a close personal friend of Natalia Lininchuk, the coach of Lobacheva & Averbukh. If anything, Shekhovtseva complained throughout the whole 2000-2001 season that she thought L&A were better than both Anissina & Peizerat and Fusar-Poli & Margaglio, but felt that she just couldn´t put them first since it would go against the ISU line. To summarize, I don´t think that ANYBODY would be foolish enough to trust Shekhovtseva with undermarking L&A. Given all the history, it just doesn´t make any sense.

    Now, getting back to the original (much more interesting) question. What countries could actually be a part of that so-called "Eastern block"? I´d argue that none except for Israel (which is in that block for very odd reasons), and relatively minor federations such as Kazakhstan and Azerbajan (none of them Slavic, BTW). Traditional allies such as Ukraine, Belorussia, etc. just don´t have the same interests.

  8. #38
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptichka
    ...Shekhovtseva complained throughout the whole 2000-2001 season that she thought L&A were better than both Anissina & Peizerat and Fusar-Poli & Margaglio, but felt that she just couldn´t put them first since it would go against the ISU line.
    To me, that quote sums up ice dance judging in a nutshell. This experienced judge could not vote for for the team that she thought skated the best because "it would go against the ISU line."

    Mathman :\

  9. #39
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Oh dear, it's not just 'bloc voting', it's the 'ISU line'. So, that is why the there is secrecy in judging!! hmmmm. Let's keep that 'ISU line' active. :sheesh:

    Ya know, if figure skating was a building, I would just raze it and start all over.

    Joe

  10. #40
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    To me, that quote sums up ice dance judging in a nutshell. This experienced judge could not vote for for the team that she thought skated the best because "it would go against the ISU line."
    I would interpret it more like "me think they are pretty, but those bad guys all say I have to look at the edges, and footwork, and twizzles, and all that other stuff"

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Ya know, if figure skating was a building, I would just raze it and start all over.
    Perhaps it's growing up in the USSR, with its Revolutionary history, that makes me skeptical of razing anything and starting over... :\

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