Top 10 "wuz robbed!" | Golden Skate

Top 10 "wuz robbed!"

berthes ghost

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
OK, it's the offseason....

1. Kerrigan in Lillehammar
2. Fratianne in Lake Placid
3. Hoffman in Lake Placid
4. Torvil&Dean in Lillehammar
5. Blumburg &Seibert in Sarajevo
6. Sumners in Sarajevo
7. 8. 9. 10. tbd :laugh:

Which results have you :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: ?
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Berthes.........I agree.........I would add Elvis in Lillehammer......42
 
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Germanice

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
1. Lulu at Worlds 1996 in Edmonton
2. Irina in the SP at Oly's 2002 in SLC
3. Kulik at Worlds 1996 in Edmonton
4. Abt at Euros 2002 in Lausanne
5. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze at Worlds 2001 in Vancouver
6. Shen/Zhao at Worlds 1999 in Helsinki
7. Abt at Worlds 2002 in Nagano (should've been Yags, Abt, Honda)
8. Lambiel in the LP at Worlds 2004 in Dortmund

That's all I can think of right now.

Anke
 

icenut84

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
In no particular order:

1) Stephane Lambiel, 2004 Worlds LP (should have been second, NOT fourth)
2) Alexander Abt, 2002 Europeans LP (should have been first, not second)
3) Torvill & Dean, 1994 Olympics FD (should have been first, not third)
4) Irina Slutskaya, 2002 Olympics SP (should have been first, not second)
5) Todd Eldredge, 2001 Worlds LP (should have been second, not third)
6) Shen & Zhao, 1999 Worlds LP (should have been first, not second)
7) Chengjiang Li, 2003 Worlds LP (should have been third, not fourth)
8) Nancy Kerrigan, 1994 Olympics LP (should have been first, not second, although I much much prefer Oksana's skating)

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, decisions that I mostly don't understand at all, as in "how in the heck can they give them that placement?? Are they even watching????????"
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Let me see:

1. Michelle Kwan & Sarah Hughes, 2002 GPF 2nd LP - I thought both Michelle and Sarah skated far better than Irina that night. I know Michelle had the fall, but Irina was sloppy and only landed four clean triple jumps. I was sort of shocked when her marks popped up....they were quite high for technical merit and not deservedly so, IMHO. But, I like Irina, so I wasn't extremely peeved!


2. Todd Eldredge, 2001 Worlds LP - I thought he deserved silver also. His LP was excellent. Alexei was as riveting as always, but I felt Todd had a slight edge over him.

3. Nancy Kerrigan, 1994 Olympics LP - I love Oksana and I also prefer her style....but I felt Nancy deserved the gold that night. I know the technical mark is not all about the jumps, but Oksana's 3f was flawed and the 2a/2t combo was very messy. I agree that it was a close contest, but I thought Nancy had the edge.

4. Elvis Stojko, 1994 Olympics LP - There aren't too many that agree with me on this one. But, I always enjoyed that particular LP of Elvis's and felt, overall, he was the best. I've never been a big Urmanov fan, though. He had a nice quality on the ice, but I was always left feeling sort of cold after his performances.

5. Vanessa Gusmeroli, 2000 Worlds LP - Vanessa was never a brilliant artist or a masterful technician, but her "Legends of the Fall" LP in Nice was so wonderful. I was so proud of her for putting down a brilliant skate. I would have definitely put her at least above Butirskaya in the LP, possibly even Slutskaya. It was a great moment for her.

6. Michelle Kwan, 1995 Worlds SP - I agree with her LP placement, but fifth place for the most technically difficult program in the SP phase was a bit low. She hadn't refined her presentation skills yet, but she certainly deserved to be in at least 4th above a flawed Bonaly.

7. Woetzl & Steuer, 1998 Olympics LP - Sorry, I am probably very alone on this one, but I thought they deserved the silver medal. B&S were sublime and wonderful, etc....but they made some big mistakes. W&S had small mistakes, but I felt overall they were slightly better...but that is just me of course!

8. Maria Butirskaya, 1998 Worlds LP - I thought Maria deserved the silver medal in Minneapolis. Irina was unpolished and extremely sloppy...and her much touted set of 3/3s weren't that clean or spectacular.

9. Ina & Zimmerman, 2002 Olympics LP - I would have had them at least in 4th over the uninspiring T&M.

10. Angela Nikidinov, 2001 Nationals LP - Sarah skated a very good program and I wouldn't necessarily say it was robbery, but I personally always felt Angela had the better skate that night. I would have given Angela the silver.
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
1. Alexander Abt - 2002 Euros. There was no contest here, the judges went on name recognition alone.

2. Matt Savoie - US Nationals 2002 - should've had the bronze and gone to the Olympics. Mike Weiss was beyond putrid in that performance, but was completely held up.

Those are the only two that get my blood boiling. While I think Evgeni should've won GPF 2001, I can see it going either way.

Laura :)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The only time I remember being totally furious was Yuka Sato placing over Surya Bonaly at 1994 Worlds. I thought Surya mopped up the ice with her. I just couldn't understand it.

Later when I learned more about the sport I started to appreciate everything that Yuka brings to the ice, so I got over it.:)

Mathman
 

Fossi

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
1. Sarah Hughes at '00 Nationals. She should've had silver. Everyone complains about Sasha's placement, when actually it was a 5/4 split between Sarah and Sasha, and Sarah should've had the silver.

2. Sarah Hughes, and Michelle Kwan at the GPF 02. There was no way Irina S. won that competition. Peggy had it right when she called it Irina's early Christmas gift. I don't recall there being a huge outcry at the time, and I don't remember Sarah or Michelle making such a fuss like Irina did at SLC. They could have, and should have!

3. Sarah Hughes Olympic LP 02. She should've had all 1st place votes! :mad:
(same year as GPF 02. Did they want to give it to Irina, or what?! :mad: )

4. All the skaters that placed under Sasha at Skate America when she kept trying the quad. They should've protested that result! :laugh:
 
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OwenEvans

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Hi All,

This is my first post - I've been lurking awhile. :)

The biggest wuzrobbed I can remember is Fratianne @ Lake Placid. Yes, I will agree with anyone that says Linda was not a Kwan/Cohen/Ota etc artistically, however, she was no slouch and absolutely 1000 x better than Poetsch and also outskated Poetsch technically in both SP and LP by a considerable margin too IMO (including lovely 3s-2l in the short!).

Oksana/Nancy gets a lot of press on the boards, however the difference is that people can still find arguments for and against for either, whereas Linda, IMO, was just totally better in the freestyle competitions and, try as I might, I can't understand how Poetsch's "superiority" in the figures was so great that Linda, in third after the figures AFAIR, could not make up the ground in the other two competition phases unless there was some extremely dodgy marking of the figures. I mean, it's not like Linda had poor figures, like eg, Denise Beilman or Midori and had to always make up huge ground in the freestyle competitions. Linda and Annette had swopped world titles the previous 3 years, with Linda winning twice, so all of a sudden at Lake Placid, Annette turns into Trixie Schuba and is so much better???? I think not. All just IMO....

BTW, I :love: Goldenskate :)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Great post, OwenEvens. Welcome aboard!

Mathman:)

PS. I'm sure that there will be plenty of folks who will be glad to tell you why Fratianne was terrible and Poetsche deserved to win.:laugh:
 

MichelleWingKwan

Match Penalty
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
I was so :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: at the 98 Winter Games win Tara Lipinski won the gold medal over Michelle Kwan who one the silver that night and she was in first and should have stayed in first after the long program. I was going to petion it after the games but I heard Michelle would have not thought it was special if the had 2 gold medals in an interweiw. (SP)
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
- Lu Chen in 1996 Worlds FS
- Ilia Kulik in 1996 Worlds FS
- Shen & Zhao in 1999 Worlds FS
- Todd Eldredge in 2001 Worlds FS
- Alexander Abt in 2002 Europeans FS
- Irina Slutskaya in 2002 Olympics SP
- L&A in 2003 Worlds FS
- Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze in 2002 Olympics FS
- Stephane Lambiel in 2004 Worlds FS

Marjaana
 

Germanice

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Btw., I always wonder where all this "Elvis-should've-won-in-Lillehammer"-stuff comes from. This is just another legend! In fact it wasn't even close, only one judge gave a 1st place to Stojko, two went for Petrenko and six (including the CANADIAN! one!) for Urmanov.

Anke
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Btw., I always wonder where all this "Elvis-should've-won-in-Lillehammer"-stuff comes from. This is just another legend! In fact it wasn't even close, only one judge gave a 1st place to Stojko, two went for Petrenko and six (including the CANADIAN! one!) for Urmanov.

Personally speaking, I don't think it was robbery. It was a close contest in my opinion. But, for me, I preferred Elvis in this particular case. Also, Petrenko only got one first place ordinal, Urmanov had six, Elvis one...and believe it or not, Candeloro had one from the Danish judge! Brokenankle posted a great link to an excellent site that lists the fulls results (marks, ordinals, etc.) for every Olympics (which is where I just found that!). I believe it is in the "Was it a split panel?" thread. Check it out....it is an awesome source!
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
BronzeisGolden said:
Let me see:

1. Michelle Kwan & Sarah Hughes, 2002 GPF 2nd LP - I thought both Michelle and Sarah skated far better than Irina that night. I know Michelle had the fall, but Irina was sloppy and only landed four clean triple jumps. I was sort of shocked when her marks popped up....they were quite high for technical merit and not deservedly so, IMHO. But, I like Irina, so I wasn't extremely peeved!

4. Elvis Stojko, 1994 Olympics LP - There aren't too many that agree with me on this one. But, I always enjoyed that particular LP of Elvis's and felt, overall, he was the best. I've never been a big Urmanov fan, though. He had a nice quality on the ice, but I was always left feeling sort of cold after his performances.

7. Woetzl & Steuer, 1998 Olympics LP - Sorry, I am probably very alone on this one, but I thought they deserved the silver medal. B&S were sublime and wonderful, etc....but they made some big mistakes. W&S had small mistakes, but I felt overall they were slightly better...but that is just me of course!

8. Maria Butirskaya, 1998 Worlds LP - I thought Maria deserved the silver medal in Minneapolis. Irina was unpolished and extremely sloppy...and her much touted set of 3/3s weren't that clean or spectacular.

9. Ina & Zimmerman, 2002 Olympics LP - I would have had them at least in 4th over the uninspiring T&M.

I would agree with most of this:
1- Irina for some reason always seems to get held up at the GPF; she could go out to center ice and sit in a lawn chair for 4 1/2 minutes and still win the freeskate. She's won 3 of them, and IMO she only deserved 1 of them.

4 - This is one of those "style preference" situations; most North Americans find Stojko dynamic and Urmanov out-and-out boring; most Europeans may feel quite the oppisite. In this case, I too fall into the "North American" category, which, germanice, explains where this "Elvis should've won in Lillehammer" comes from. IMO, Urmanov was dull, ridicolously costumed, and why would you insert some sort of "weird wacky knees" sequence into what is supposed to be an "ultra-classical" program??

7- No, you're not alone. Jelena falls on Anton's head, they go down in a heap, and apparently this was considered to be QUITE artistic, based on the marks given, plus they made some other errors too. As far as I'm concerned, HUGE errors, especially those that should not be made once one gets out of the Junior level, deserve HUGE deductions, and from ANY PAIR NOT COACHED BY TAMARA MOSKVINA in that competition, IMO they would have been taken. I was so irritated by the marks this pulled in that I almost turned the TV off before the competition was over.

8- ITA, and I'd take it one step further. Butrskaja should have won not only the silver in 98, but the bronze in 96 and 97. Gusmeroli in 97 was merely "meh" and Slutskaya in her early days was mostly coasting by on pure personality, because there was really nothing about her skating that was all that spectacular.

9- I feel the same way. And once I found out that T/M ended up ahead of I/Z, I kind of had a feeling the way the rest of the competition was going to go. And turned out I was right. I considered this kind of a foreshadowing of the whole Sale/Pelletier-Bereznaja/Sikharulidze thing.

Some additional "we wuz robbed"s:

Blumberg & Seibert, Sarajevo, definitely. One judge takes it upon herself to decide which music has the proper tempo and which does not, which would have been one thing had she applied the same rules to Torvill & Dean. 20 years later and I still want to throw rotten vegetables at that woman.

Krylova & Ovsiannakov, 97 Worlds. "Masquerade Waltz" was one of the most brilliant free dances of the late 90s and should have pulled 6s. Gritshuk & Platov, for them, were quite good, too, but they made a couple of errors and should have been 2nd to K/O.

Anissina & Peizerat, 99 Worlds. However, I guess it all came out in the wash because 2 years later, Krylova & Ovsiannakov should have been 2nd to Anissina & Peizerat. Not only was K/O's free dance a really bad imitation of the Duchesnay's Jungle classic, it was also unbeleivably simple in composition and footwork and from a pure difficulty level it was not even top 10 stuff, tho they sold it well. A/P were much more difficult and interesting.

Michael Weiss, 98 Nationals. Weiss, back when he was still dyamic and interesting, loses out to Eldredge on one of his less enthralling nights because the US judges still operate under the impression that if we send someone to the Olympics without giving them a National title, the Olympic judges won't give them a gold medal. This despite the fact that Eldredge had already won his World title the year he lost the Nationals. If Weiss had won as he'd deserved to, Eldredge may have done better at Nagano because he always put on his best performances when he was PO'ed over previous results.

Brasseur & Eisler, Shishkova & Naumov, Eltsova & Bushkov, Meno & Sand, Kovarikova & Novotny, Rahkamo & Kokko, Lillehammer. Who CARES how many years (especially in the case of R/K) you've been putting the time in and working your way up to get your way into Olympic medal contention? Let's bring the pros back and place them ahead of you. You want an Olympic medal, surely you can wait around another 4 years..... :sheesh: :sheesh: :mad:

Drobiazko & Vanagas, 01 Worlds. The uproar in Vancouver was over Shae-Lynn and Vic not winning the bronze. IMO the couple that got truly ripped off was Drobiazko & Vanagas, who should have been on the podium over Lobacheva & Averbukh.

Punsalan & Swallow, 92 Nationals. I thought the unwritten rule was supposed to be, you send the best team possible to the Olympics, so therefore manipulating results at Olympic year Nationals is permissible to get the best team. So why didn't they hold up Punsalan & Swallow in 92? Defending National champs, an impressive 11th in their first Worlds, and yes they made a mistake in their free dance but SO WHAT? Mistakes have never been overlooked before? And they send Mayer & Breen instead?? What a waste of an Olympic berth. And to make things worse, this set a trend for leaving Punsalan & Swallow, arguably our best dance couple, at home for several seasons so once they finally got to go to Worlds again, they pretty much had to start moving through the ranks all over again. I've always felt that if they'd been sent to Albertville, their career would have turned out much differently.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
7- No, you're not alone. Jelena falls on Anton's head, they go down in a heap, and apparently this was considered to be QUITE artistic, based on the marks given, plus they made some other errors too. As far as I'm concerned, HUGE errors, especially those that should not be made once one gets out of the Junior level, deserve HUGE deductions, and from ANY PAIR NOT COACHED BY TAMARA MOSKVINA in that competition, IMO they would have been taken. I was so irritated by the marks this pulled in that I almost turned the TV off before the competition was over.

So he tripped as they were coming out of the lift at the end, yes it was a mistake but it was just a fall - one that happens to every pairs skaters in the world probably far more often than they'd like. If you've ever watched an entire pairs competition (particularly Euroepans) - the first flight or two of skaters can be really nerve wrecking to watch for how unstabel they are. Either way i think B&S could have gone out and botched every element for the snooze fest that was Woetzel & Steuer.

And just pulling your leg but - if falling on an overhead lift is the type of mistake that shouldn't occur outside of juniors, then what kind of a mistake is falling on your closing pose?! :D
 

Germanice

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
BronzeisGolden said:
Personally speaking, I don't think it was robbery. It was a close contest in my opinion. But, for me, I preferred Elvis in this particular case. Also, Petrenko only got one first place ordinal, Urmanov had six, Elvis one...and believe it or not, Candeloro had one from the Danish judge! Brokenankle posted a great link to an excellent site that lists the fulls results (marks, ordinals, etc.) for every Olympics (which is where I just found that!). I believe it is in the "Was it a split panel?" thread. Check it out....it is an awesome source!
Thanx, Bronxe! Somehow I've managed not to notice this particular link. :)
---

Well, I began to read the thread mentioned above, but being a "classical European" in sooo many ways (prefering Urmanov over Stojko anytime!) ;) , I just stopped at a certain point and rolled my eyes, because to me it seemed to turn out into another "duuh-poor-Northamerican-skater-X-wuz-robbed-by-dull-Russian/Soviet-skater-Y-only-because-of-eville-eastern-bloc-judging!"-issue! ;)

Sorry, but after reading fs message boards for so many years one sometimes gets the impression that almost only Northamericans (especially US-Americans!) do have the unique privilege of being robbed over and over again! :laugh:

Anke
 
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Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
JonnyCoop said:
Michael Weiss, 98 Nationals. Weiss, back when he was still dyamic and interesting, loses out to Eldredge on one of his less enthralling nights because the US judges still operate under the impression that if we send someone to the Olympics without giving them a National title, the Olympic judges won't give them a gold medal. This despite the fact that Eldredge had already won his World title the year he lost the Nationals. If Weiss had won as he'd deserved to, Eldredge may have done better at Nagano because he always put on his best performances when he was PO'ed over previous results.

.

Totally agree with this 'wuzrobbed'.

Also:

Petrenko over Wylie in Albertville....
Yagudin over Abt at 2002 Euros.....


Kasey
 
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