True. I didn't think of it that way. Without Nathan here, Yuzu would be the winner obviously. I like Nathan mixing it up a little bit or else it will be boring getting used to Yuzu or Javi winning all the time. Nathan is creating the buzz whether we like it or not and it's good for this sport. It's not his fault that he is better than anyone or a little ahead on the quad fest as of now. And I am not saying he's invincible.
2017 4CCs Men's Recap
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
True. I didn't think of it that way. Without Nathan here, Yuzu would be the winner obviously. I like Nathan mixing it up a little bit or else it will be boring getting used to Yuzu or Javi winning all the time. Nathan is creating the buzz whether we like it or not and it's good for this sport. It's not his fault that he is better than anyone or a little ahead on the quad fest as of now. And I am not saying he's invincible.
I like your definition. Appreciate!
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2014
* Did the quadfest 2017 live up to your expectations?
It was a great show, especially because there were mistakes but no major splatfests from the top guys (Patrick didn't do terribly, and right now we shouldn't have high expectations for Yan Han). Nathan and Shoma's programs were super exciting (both free and short), and Yuzuru impressed me more then when he is clean: I screamed throughout all his second half thinking he was crazy, but also an unparalleled talent.
* Which quad did you like the best at this competition?
I liked so many! I'll narrow it down to three: Shoma and Yuzuru's Loops, and Patrick 4toe-3toe (he might not have the craziest transitions or the super high BV or the more exotic quads, but the power and beauty of that combo will always leave me in awe)
It was a great show, especially because there were mistakes but no major splatfests from the top guys (Patrick didn't do terribly, and right now we shouldn't have high expectations for Yan Han). Nathan and Shoma's programs were super exciting (both free and short), and Yuzuru impressed me more then when he is clean: I screamed throughout all his second half thinking he was crazy, but also an unparalleled talent.
* Which quad did you like the best at this competition?
I liked so many! I'll narrow it down to three: Shoma and Yuzuru's Loops, and Patrick 4toe-3toe (he might not have the craziest transitions or the super high BV or the more exotic quads, but the power and beauty of that combo will always leave me in awe)
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Wait, where would a < or << fit in? A downgrade would definitely count as a major mistake, I'd assume. Would an under-rotation count as just a mistake?
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
As others are saying, a pop doesn't look like a big mistake but it actually is. Whenever I'm in doubt at anything (and for example I was really excited how he skated the FS, I still am, but I went back to the math to see just how much he lost and it's truly glaring then). So here, keeping in mind Yuzuru jumps the 4S-3T in the second half so
4S-3T = 16.28
2S-1Lo = 1.98
Such a difference! It's a very big mistake even if it doesn't look that way. Now what also 'helped' the impression of the program is that he managed to do the fourth quad and the last 3A so overall it looked like this
4Lo, 4S, 3F / 4S+3T, 4T, 3A+2T, 3A+Lo+3S, 3Lz = 87.53
vs
4Lo, 4S, 3F / 2S+Lo, 4T, 3A+3T, 4T+2T, 3A = 77.30
which is still 10.23 points of a difference. He lost that much, even with all the shuffling and the fourth quad but the impression is one thing, and numbers another. It was still a magnificent save but when you look at the numbers it just emphasizes how costly a mistake that pop actually is. Doesn't look like it maybe at first glance but it so is.
About whether he would have won earlier with that, depends against whom. If you look at the results from Boston, Javier's FS was 216.41 with just 3 quads in the free. This is why btw, I think writing off Javier is too soon. He has yet to peak, he's always been a skater who peaks at Worlds, and last season his winning score from Boston was 314.93.
I understand excitement over quads and there is no denying Nathan is one of the top contenders now and not a threat to the top men but one of the top men. But just to assess where they all are, it's better to get a few numbers that we have down in front of us and then take a look.
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- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
A << is really bad, as you get the BV of the lower ranked jump and negative GOE - so it's worse then a fall too (it's basically as bad as a pop I guess).
<'s are also pretty bad, but it depends on the rest of the jump, since that will determine how the GOE will look. Quite often, still better to fall on a rotated jump then to <, especially on quads.
Generally, you will see less </<<'s with the men (at least regarding what is called), and quite a few of them tend to fall when they < due to the momentum on the landing (Yuzu is a good example here).
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2014
Yes, a << is definitely a major mistake too, an UR is a mistake (as bad as a fall or even worse a bit).
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
It did!
Yuzu and Shoma's 4Los were beautifful!
Patrick's 4t-3t was PERFECT.
Yuzu's Emergency quad and final 3A was jaw-dropping. Loved it.
The non-quadsters Misha and Jason gave a great show as well. Their performances were very bit as beautiful, if not more so, than the quadsters.
Shout-out to Boyang. He was a bit of a mess, and Han Yan even more so, but they are so charming, how can they be so charming?
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Country
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When the planned quads were tallyed up, many were predicting a splat-fest.
I think the interesting news is that there wasn't one. Sure, Shoma had falls, but they weren't on quads.
Patrick had one fall on a quad. Maybe there were others, but I don't recall them off the top of my head. There certainly weren't as many as was feared.
I think the interesting news is that there wasn't one. Sure, Shoma had falls, but they weren't on quads.
Patrick had one fall on a quad. Maybe there were others, but I don't recall them off the top of my head. There certainly weren't as many as was feared.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
The strength and sureness it takes to end your program with a big 3A like Yuzu did is amazing. Han used to have the most impressive 3As in the business, but it's been so long since I've seen it in all its glory. Do you remember his 3A's in 2013-14? Tremendously high, far and fast.
SP 3As , as I promised. 
BV: 8.5; (*9.35 BV w/ bonus for second half) < = /6.49 << = 3.30/3.63 BV
Yuzuru 12.35* (PERFECT GOE!!)
Shoma 12.06*
Patrick 10.79
Keiji 9.93
Nathan 9.78*
Han 9.78*
Boyang 9.50
Misha 9.07
Grant 8.79
June 8.79
Julian 8.64
Michael 7.79
Jin Seo 6.5
Mark 6.5
Brendan 6.35*
Jason 5.50
Nam 5.35 (<)
Chih-I 2.90 (<)
Kevin 1.80 (<<)
21 skaters attempted, 18 rotated, 12 with positive GOE.
Yuzuru and Shoma's 3As in the SP were standouts for me. Nice to see that the scores are in line with my thinking.
BV: 8.5; (*9.35 BV w/ bonus for second half) < = /6.49 << = 3.30/3.63 BV
Yuzuru 12.35* (PERFECT GOE!!)
Shoma 12.06*
Patrick 10.79
Keiji 9.93
Nathan 9.78*
Han 9.78*
Boyang 9.50
Misha 9.07
Grant 8.79
June 8.79
Julian 8.64
Michael 7.79
Jin Seo 6.5
Mark 6.5
Brendan 6.35*
Jason 5.50
Nam 5.35 (<)
Chih-I 2.90 (<)
Kevin 1.80 (<<)
21 skaters attempted, 18 rotated, 12 with positive GOE.
Yuzuru and Shoma's 3As in the SP were standouts for me. Nice to see that the scores are in line with my thinking.
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- Joined
- Mar 12, 2016
Here's my 2 cents...
Major mistake - pop on combo or quad (especially if it's into a double or single, I feel like popping a quad into a triple isn't as bad an error), missed combo, fall+underotation, or dowmgrade, or fall+downgrade (although usually you fall if you underotate so much to a downgrade)
Mistake- fall but rotated, underotation but no fall, popping a quad to a triple
Small mistake- step out, shaky landing, hand down, edge call
Major mistake - pop on combo or quad (especially if it's into a double or single, I feel like popping a quad into a triple isn't as bad an error), missed combo, fall+underotation, or dowmgrade, or fall+downgrade (although usually you fall if you underotate so much to a downgrade)
Mistake- fall but rotated, underotation but no fall, popping a quad to a triple
Small mistake- step out, shaky landing, hand down, edge call
