Elvis Stojko: Looking back

LiamForeman · Mar 13, 2017

Looking back I'd still favor Urmanov over Stojko but that event was such a clusterf I didn't care one way or the other. I was Team Petrenko from the outset and was more horrified that he didn't win the FS. Didn't he only place 4th or 5th in the FS? Unbelievable. Stojko was held back by his stumpy body and his positions would never look good. Urmanov had better carriage but his spins were not worthy of being Oly champ. Plus Urmanov's choreo was just awful with those chicken leg moves and the telephone answering. Had Elvis won I wouldn't have cared, because I thought it was close. It was just a bad event. Candeloro getting bronze and he had such awful skating skills, I could barely watch his programs.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 13, 2017

gmyers said:
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-02-20/sports/sp-25192_1_winter-olympic-champion

Thanks for that article. I found it interesting to read that Boitano lacked the hunger in 1994 after already winning gold. That seems to be rather common; we rarely see OGMs try to defend.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 13, 2017

LiamForeman said:
Looking back I'd still favor Urmanov over Stojko but that event was such a clusterf I didn't care one way or the other.

It was a disappointing event given the level of talent in the field: previous two OGMs, reigning WGM, Canadian champ, Russian champ, US champ, French champ.

andromache · Mar 13, 2017

drivingmissdaisy said:
It was a disappointing event given the level of talent in the field: previous two OGMs, reigning WGM, Canadian champ, Russian champ, US champ, French champ.

Would be interesting to "score" the top guys using IJS. Because 6.0 made it impossible to medal after falling too far behind in the SP, Browning/Petrenko/Boitano might've been underscored in the LP - how much higher do they finish under an IJS sort of system?

Could be not any higher at all - haven't watched any of the performances at all recently.

gkelly · Mar 13, 2017

andromache said:
Would be interesting to "score" the top guys using IJS. Because 6.0 made it impossible to medal after falling too far behind in the SP, Browning/Petrenko/Boitano might've been underscored in the LP - how much higher do they finish under an IJS sort of system?

Should we give this a try, just for fun and curiosity how it would turn out with Golden Skate judges? Top 6 freeskates only? Or include Millot, Davis, and Tataurov also (the rest of the final flight)?

I can start a thread and collect the video links. Can someone else volunteer to add up the scores?
What about playing technical panel? I could give it a try but would welcome co-panelists. 2017 rules?

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 13, 2017

andromache said:
Would be interesting to "score" the top guys using IJS. Because 6.0 made it impossible to medal after falling too far behind in the SP, Browning/Petrenko/Boitano might've been underscored in the LP - how much higher do they finish under an IJS sort of system?

I believe one of Petrenko or Browning would have landed on the podium in place of Candeloro; both beat him in the LP. Browning had two big mistakes in the SP and Petrenko was << on his solo triple in that segment, so I'm not sure which of the two would have ended ahead of the other after the LP.

musicfan80 · Mar 13, 2017

Jaana said:
On the other hand I did not admire his skating style and his unfortunate body type did not help his look on the ice. But I agree that he found his own style that worked for him and I have often thought that Max Aaron should go for the same route.

karne said:

Huh? His unfortunate body type? I always thought Stojko's body type was fine; he was had a more compact/muscular build than Eldredge, Urmanov, Browning, etc., and didn't have the longer, slimmer limbs in order to accentuate his elements more. And let's be honest: If we are going to talk about a skater from that time who looked bad on the ice, we should really start with Philippe Candeloro.

Stojko's costumes always fit his body well, but I don't think that he ever had a costume that didn't have a black top. :laugh:

As far as "style" goes, are you suggesting that Max, because of his build, should do more "muscular" program like with fighter/martial arts themes? Cause I didn't think that Gladiator program worked out well for him and Max does like operas & musicals.

GGFan · Mar 13, 2017

I find it really hard to separate what I knew then from what I know now, so I look forward to the scoring thread. For example, I would have put Kurt 1st in the long. But a clean program was so much more important then. Alexei had that bad landing but he landed every jump on one feet. It'll be interesting to judge it under the IJS.

andromache · Mar 13, 2017

gkelly said:
Should we give this a try, just for fun and curiosity how it would turn out with Golden Skate judges? Top 6 freeskates only? Or include Millot, Davis, and Tataurov also (the rest of the final flight)?

I can start a thread and collect the video links. Can someone else volunteer to add up the scores?
What about playing technical panel? I could give it a try but would welcome co-panelists. 2017 rules?

This sounds fun! Entire final flight sounds the most fair.

I'm not skilled enough to play technical panel. But should specific flat rates be given to all spins and step sequences (with GOE only making up the difference) since the rules for those are just so different from IJS to now?

karne · Mar 13, 2017

gkelly said:
What about playing technical panel? I could give it a try but would welcome co-panelists. 2017 rules?

I will be your Shin Amano if you like. :cool14:

gkelly · Mar 13, 2017

andromache said:
This sounds fun! Entire final flight sounds the most fair.

I'm not skilled enough to play technical panel. But should specific flat rates be given to all spins and step sequences (with GOE only making up the difference) since the rules for those are just so different from IJS to now?

karne said:
I will be your Shin Amano if you like. :cool14:

Thanks, karne. I can play controller in case you need a second pair of eyes on any of the calls.

I suspect that most of the spins and step sequences will be level B or level 1 by today's rules -- possibly one or two level 2s might sneak in somewhere. But do let's give credit for someone who actually achieves a level feature or two.

Also, if they don't achieve sufficient spin revolutions in basic positions, some of the spins might end up not counting at all.

Should we give credit for a 4th or 5th spin or 9th jumping pass, if any of the skaters split their elements that way?

There were rarely second step sequences in freeskates in 1994. But if there is close to a rink's worth of skating moves in a row in addition to the step sequence, let's call it choreo sequence.

(Yes, of course the skaters would have prepared differently if they'd known the 2017 rules they'd be judged by. One more reason this is just for fun and doesn't actually prove anything one way or another.)

karne · Mar 13, 2017

When it comes to sit spins, should we invalidate anything too high? I feel like we'll call jumps UR and stuff so there's no reason not to be hardass on sits as well.

Hmm. I'll have to think about the other one. We might have to just keep extra spins and jumps because of the way the rules were then.

Jaana · Mar 14, 2017

LiamForeman said:
Urmanov had better carriage but his spins were not worthy of being Oly champ.

I believe the spins did not matter in that era or at least very little. Urmanov had a great carriage, such a straight back...

iluvtodd · Mar 14, 2017

Nothing personal against Alexei Urmanov, but I was shocked that Elvis didn't win gold in Nagano. I was ecstatic that he won his first World title a month later.

For the record, I was impressed with Elvis from the 1992 Winter Olympics, and always cheered for him from that point on.

plushyfan · Mar 14, 2017

GGFan said:
I find it really hard to separate what I knew then from what I know now, so I look forward to the scoring thread. For example, I would have put Kurt 1st in the long. But a clean program was so much more important then. Alexei had that bad landing but he landed every jump on one feet. It'll be interesting to judge it under the IJS.

The clean program was the most important.

Skater Boy · Mar 14, 2017

andromache said:
This sounds fun! Entire final flight sounds the most fair.

I'm not skilled enough to play technical panel. But should specific flat rates be given to all spins and step sequences (with GOE only making up the difference) since the rules for those are just so different from IJS to now?

Oh dear Golden Skate judges??? Sounds like Salt Lake and every other competition all over lol. Logical or not, I do have great empathy for the silver medallists of the olympics especially when it happens to them twice. I mean what are the odds Orser and Stoijko - both have dual silvers. Add to that Chan's silver maybe Canada should go buy a lottery ticket - one would think the odds would favour them eventually lol. Mind you there are some triumphant silvers - Liz Manley, Paul Wiley, S and K in pairs,

Ares · Mar 14, 2017

Jaana said:
I believe the spins did not matter in that era or at least very little. Urmanov had a great carriage, such a straight back...

I remember one of British Eurosport commentators pointing out from time to time unfinished revolution in one of the skaters spin positions in the 90s as an indication for deduction in tech score but we all know that those details were often overlooked either way. There's no way either to prove whether specific judge took that into consideration when giving tech mark.

jersey1302 · Mar 14, 2017

Elvis made me a skating fan. Oh man.. those were the days. We used to watch every single competition with him. I absolutely loved his skating. It was so fresh to see that style. So much power and flow in his skating. He was ALWAYS a crowd pleaser. Its beyond me how the judges sometimes didnt see it.

mrrice · Mar 14, 2017

Canadians.....I know that Elvis has done theater in the past and I was wondering if he sings. Most of you know that that's what I did for several years and I would love to see a video of him singing. For some reason, I thought he released a single about how much he loved his wife. Does that sound familiar?

Never mind. The answer is yes, Elvis did record a single, or at least a sample of one. It was called "Let Me Be The One"

Elvis Stojko:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QADTPYwkPOQ

Elvis Stojko: Looking back

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

drivingmissdaisy

drivingmissdaisy

andromache

gkelly

drivingmissdaisy

musicfan80

GGFan

andromache

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

gkelly

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

Jaana

iluvtodd

plushyfan

Skater Boy

Ares

jersey1302

mrrice

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