The Body of a Gymnast | Page 3 | Golden Skate

The Body of a Gymnast

IDLERACER

Medalist
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
If it's of any interest, on most of the other boards that I frequent, the #1 hot gymnastics babe of these olympics (among males, anyway) is definitely Catalina Ponor, the only Romainian that looks like she's in her mid-to-late teens, instead of her early-to-mid teens.

My personal opinion...Anna Pavlova is absolutely drop-dead gorgeous. That perfectly round face and those gigantic eyes make her look almost like one of Disney's cartoon princesses, which is weird because her mother is rather ordinary looking. The curvaceous bod helps too. I can't wait to see what she looks like in a couple of years, when I don't have to feel smarmy about admiring her charms...well, at least not as smarmy. ;)
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
ITA with you, Soogar, about Sasha Cohen being all wrong for rhythmic gymnastics for all the reasons you stated. Her body is more suited to artistic gymnastics, but I like her as a figure skater just fine, although she's gotta work on those jump combos and just plain jump technique. And LOSE the grand pas de deux ballet music for her LP's.)

And thanks for the HOT HOT HOT photo of Nemov engaged in that wonderful Russian tradition of lots and lots of great big kissing. Of course I'd like to be in there somewhere, even if they do squish me to death. But whatta way to go!:love:

About Artemov, the photo was too small for to tell how gorgeous he is, but I'll take your word for it.

So many hotties, so little time. In cases like these, Pavlova, the gorgeous Romanian gymnast who wore the sparkly black leotard during the all-around and individual apparatus, and many, many more in many other sports, I definitely don't have Claire Fisher's problem.;)
Rgirl/Rboy (you only live once)
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Rgirl said:
ITA with you, Soogar, about Sasha Cohen being all wrong for rhythmic gymnastics for all the reasons you stated. Her body is more suited to artistic gymnastics, but I like her as a figure skater just fine, although she's gotta work on those jump combos and just plain jump technique. And LOSE the grand pas de deux ballet music for her LP's.)

And thanks for the HOT HOT HOT photo of Nemov engaged in that wonderful Russian tradition of lots and lots of great big kissing. Of course I'd like to be in there somewhere, even if they do squish me to death. But whatta way to go!:love:

About Artemov, the photo was too small for to tell how gorgeous he is, but I'll take your word for it.

So many hotties, so little time. In cases like these, Pavlova, the gorgeous Romanian gymnast who wore the sparkly black leotard during the all-around and individual apparatus, and many, many more in many other sports, I definitely don't have Claire Fisher's problem.;)
Rgirl/Rboy (you only live once)

Rgirl, does that mean we will be hearing you at open mic night or see you rolling on the grass at the local funeral parlor ;) :D :p ???
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Piel said:
5'8'' here :D . I noticed this in the Chinese too. The difference in body type, is it due to better (or different) training, better nutrition, genetics, or a combination? Does it effect performance? The Romanians and Americans performed equally well IMO. The difference being the Romanians didn't .01 themselves like the Americans. Is this because of better discipline? Do all of them living together create a better sense of team? Would American gymnasts benefit from this....does anyone know if any improvements in performance came out of Marta's training camp prior to the Olympics?

This is an excellent topic for an RGirl consult. RGal where is your twin?
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to your terrific questions and observations. I'm honored to be invited to speak on it, though I'll give my medal back if we find out that there was an error in the judging;).

1. I noticed this [certain body types] in the Chinese too. The difference in body type, is it due to better (or different) training, better nutrition, genetics, or a combination? Does it effect performance?
Rgirl's Opinion: I would say the biggest factor in the Chinese gymnast body type is selection at a young age based on genetics, Like they used to do in the Soviet Union, their coaches, trainers, and for ballet, the ballet masters and mistresses, roamed the schools and looked for certain physical characteristics in the children. When you've done this for generations, you know what to look for. After the first selection, the child's parents are also evaluated. If both parents are heavy in certain ways or have certain physical characteristics, or lack them, the child may be accepted on a trial basis or not accepted at all, depending on the sport or if it's ballet.

2. The Romanians and Americans performed equally well IMO. The difference being the Romanians didn't .01 themselves like the Americans. Is this because of better discipline? Do all of them living together create a better sense of team? Would American gymnasts benefit from this?
Rgirl's Opinion: I think the Romanians and Americans have pretty much equal discipline individually, but the Romanians have a group discipline that is tough to beat. Yes, I do believe that the system of having the Romanians living and training together creates a cohesiveness that I thing functions all the way down to the quantum level. We know that the periods of women on teams who are together a great deal of the time soon occur on the same cycle. This means their hormones are in sync. If their hormones are in sync, virtually everything else is close to being on the same cycle. Also, there are ways in which team athletes develop a synchronicity that we don't even know about. I know I felt it in my dance company and also felt it when a dancer left and was replaced. It changed the whole energy, for lack of a better word, of the group. And when you saw dancers who had been in the company together for 10-12 years, when unison was required they were in sync down to their pinkies. Even non-unison movement had a sense of totality, that this was not five or six people moving around but rather one "creature" creating a world of its own through movement.

I think Marta's camp helped the Americans a great deal. They had one person who was "the law" so there should not have been any confusion for the gymnasts with different coaches telling them different ways to do something. I think living and training together would help the Americans, but we would have to have a team of about 14 Olympic-ready gymnasts so that right before the Olympics, those who are performing at the highest levels, who don't have injuries, who can come in to do an apparatus specialty, etc. could be chosen. I don't know if girls from the American culture would do well under this system. In Romania, a gymnast in the family means great rewards from the government and high social and financial status. Otherwise, Romanians have very little, both in terms of objects and freedoms. The opposite case is the situation in the US. Would US preteen and teen girls give up four to six years of living in a dorm situation with fellow gymnasts just for the chance of winning Olympic gold. In other words, it's a cultural thing.

3. Does anyone know if any improvements in performance came out of Marta's training camp prior to the Olympics?
Rgirl's Opinion: I think that objectively, that's impossible to say because nobody did any controlled measurements of the gymnasts' performances before Marta's camp, during the camp, and after. My gut feeling is that the camp did help for the reasons I noted above. The more the gymnasts are together training under one head coach, who happens to be a superb one, the more likely they are to make improvements. Of course there are always gymnasts who just don't "fit" with Marta's ways of training and there we probably won't see as much improvements. But there are other coaches at the camp and chances are every gymnast is going to find a coach she can relate to.

I think the Americans buildup of .01 errors had to do with being a new team, having a lot of pressure on them to win the gold, and just not having enough time to train for toughness and consistency. There are ways to train gymnasts to stick their landings no matter what (unless they're flying sideways off the vault), which comes with controlling adrenaline, knowing how to adjust for any problems in the landing without hopping or taking a step. But it's a long process. The Romanians had the time, the Americans didn't.

Finally, I think the Romanians did routines that they had been doing for over a year. They had muscle memory wired into their bodies in ways that are astounding. The Americans had newer routines. When the difference between first and second is .0012 of a point in some cases, that hardwiring can make the difference.

And those are Rgirl's Opinions in response to Piel's kick-a$$ questions. You always come up with such great observations, Piel; the stuff that really matters. I love it:D
Rgirl
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
A couple of comments on RGirl's post (there was too much to quote :)):

Re: US and Romania. In Romania, children are selected from their first schools for the National team, and there is one national agenda set by the national coaching team. Consistent training is a hallmark. Dance training is a given. On the whole the single strategy has been to do routines with lesser difficulty but sticking them. An athlete who doesn't follow this strategy is off the team.

In the US, until the very elite levels, early training is done in for-profit gymnastics centers, and training is paid for by the athletes' parents. If a program emphasizes repetition of basic skills, and the athlete wants to do double back flips, the athlete shops for a new gym. Elite training is done at a series of gyms that compete against one another for athletes and for top placement. Training -- in and out of the gym -- is not consistent among gyms.

In Romania, the national coaches choose the team from athletes they've trained based on the team goals, and their judgements for who will perform well months later. In the US, the top elite athletes must compete for the top spots, and that means more and more difficult skills. While there is a certain amount of fudging the judges can do at Olympic tryouts, whoever is in first and second place at that competition makes the team automatically. Those athletes could have peaked at Olympic tryouts, and they may have stuck routines that they could perform with 60% consistency. But at least a quarter of the team is reserved for them, even if they don't continue to land those skills consistently.

It's no wonder that US elite athletes can't shift from "more, higher, riskier" routines to less difficult routines that they can stick consistently. Marta might be "the law," but she can't erase or instill muscle memory. Unless US Gymnastics agrees that lesser/more often is the team strategy, and they choose based on long-term observations and tracking of the athletes, the US athletes will continue to go for high risk elements, from which the -.01's will come.

Re: Romania. While Romania is still a poor country, and having an elite athlete athlete in the family is still prestigious, the situation in the country is very different than it was 10-20 years ago. Romania has a higher educational system that is the equal to any in northern Europe, and, in general, a multi-lingual population. After Ceausescu most Romanians were given outright ownership of the house/apartment in which they lived. The country is still struggling but still on track for EU membership in 2007, and the richer nations will subsidize businesses and infrastructure there upon entrance into the EU. It remains to be seen what the impact will be on elite athletics in the country, but less government interference and control over career paths and greater economic opportunity should lead to less interest in elite athletics as one of the few ways up.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
IDLERACER:

I think we have the same taste in women!!!! :love:

Anna Pavlova is an absolute knockout. I too thought she had a beautiful body (as did the Ukrainian women) and she had a nice rack.
 

hongligl

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Sk8n Mama said:
Let's not forget to factor in genetics and nutrition. The Chinese are a small people with poor nutrition. I remember watching an NBC profile of Lu Chen when she was World Champion. She lived in an apartment the size of my bathroom and ate meals that were mostly rice and very little protein. "

I agree.
I'm a Chinese living in Canada. I'm very tiny. I have a daughter of 13 years old. However people often say that I look like in my twenties. My daughter on the other hand is much more chunky. I guess eating habit has something to do with the build. My daughter eats far more meat than I would like her to eat. I still like rice and vegetables better. The girls in Chinese team are tiny, but not younger than their age. The coaches just choose tiny girls among a population tiny in general. My friend just came back from China, the clothes she bought in China are size XXL while she is size M in here.

IMO it is not a good idea to rush to conclusion.
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
There are all sizes of Chinese people. I do agree that the coaches in china always select smaller girls to train seriously, but it does not mean the entire Chinese population are short. Look at Yao Ming, he is 7.5, and his parents are around 7 feet too. There are a lot of tall Chinese people. Yao's parents grew up in Mao's hard time without a lot of good nutrition.
 
Top