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Thread: Gymnastics officials want Hamm to give up gold

  1. #1
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Gymnastics officials want Hamm to give up gold

    Gymnastics officials want Hamm to give up gold
    This is sooo infuriating. FIG asks Hamm to give the medal back, but does not order him to do so; they say it "would be recognized as the ultimate demonstration of fair play by the whole world.". I respect USOC for refusing to give the FIG letter by saying it is "a blatant and inappropriate attempt on the part of (FIG) to once again shift responsibility for its own mistakes and instead pressure Mr. Hamm into resolving what has become an embarrassing situation for your federation."

    I wish the sports writers got it right... The article says: "Yang, the bronze medalist, was wrongly docked a tenth of a point on his parallel bars routine. If he had received the proper score, he would have won gold and Hamm would have won silver." Had Yang received a proper score, it would have been 0.1 lower because of the 4 holds deduction; this means he would have been 4th instead of 3d.

    The whole thing is just a bit infuriating.

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    Sal-Kowabunga!
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    I agree with you Ptichka. It is about time the US federation stood up for Paul. Life isn't "fair." And even the international fed's solution (Paul volunteering his medal) isn't fair. At least the Olympics people are standing by the original medal awarded.

    So many other athletes could and did cry foul. But the class ones accepted whatever happened. My example being the US hurtler who was favored to win falling and being eliminated. What a first class guy. No wonder he is the team captain. He took it all in stride. Admitted he was really disappointed but said, that is the way things go, and will be the loudest cheerleader for his teammates

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    What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?
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    I am so furious about this whole thing! I hate that some reporters are excluding the fact that the 0.2 deduction for 4 holds was NEVER taken. Utterly absurd that the FIG is asking this of Paul. Cowardly too. I am glad the USOC is refusing this. Hasn't the IOC also stated that this case is closed.

    Did you guys see the piece last night on Paul? I wish they had shown this around 8:30pm rather than 11:30pm, but they brought closure to this issue and highlighted what Paul had accomplished. Then they brought out J. Rogge and he basically said this case was shut. He said in sports there is human error (very different than what happened in SLC) and everyone needs to accept that. He pointed out that if there was a bad call by an official in a soccer game are you going to have them replay the match the next day?

    If you want to open a REALLY big can of worms, how about the guy who finished 4th in the Men's AA--had Yangs routine been scored correctly would he have finished 3rd or 4th?

    One more thing (while I am still heated up over this), has the S. Korean Federation EVEN filed a protest yet? The other day the papers were saying that this was yet to be done!

    I watched Paul on D. Letterman show the other night and I can't tell you how nice it was to see him smile! Letterman was extrememely supportive as was the audience.

    eliza88

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    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Hey, I have no problem with protests. If anything, I think US rhythmnic gymnastics officials are correct to file protest over individual qualifications standings -- not because they have a point (I have no idea if they do), but because the federation should work in its athletes' best interests. I also understand that the media only cares about the rankings. However, the sports officials should be above this. They should be able to say "this is right" or "this is wrong", instead of proposing this Disneyfied version of Hamm giving his medal to Yang. BTW, is Kim then supposed to give his medal to Hamm?

  5. #5
    In the void
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliza88
    I am so furious about this whole thing! I hate that some reporters are excluding the fact that the 0.2 deduction for 4 holds was NEVER taken.
    Note: I am NO gymnastics expert - I just quote what others explained.

    This deduction is NOT obligatory. Plus it is only worth a deduction (if at all) if the hold was longer than 2 seconds which nobody yet confirmed that Yang did four of those holds (longer than 2 seconds).

    And then - if anybody debates deductions within a certain routine (the 0.1 difference between 9.9 and 10.0 is about the base mark and was admitted to be an error of the judges, not a wrong mark), the judges would have to judge again ALL of the routines. And this might have different results than you expect, perhaps that would make you even more furious? Better to calm down and watch things from different perspectives.

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    Sal-Kowabunga!
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    One of those judges they suspended coaches in the Cleveland area. His employer and friend points out that he studied and practiced judging because his dream was to be an Olympic judge. He did this inspite of missing work (and pay) and footing the costs himself. The judges are like the ones in figure skating,.

    Maybe the result of this will be a movement for judges to be paid employees of the international federation? Yeah, right away. Just like in figure skating!

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Didn't Rogge make a comment to Costas that there will be no change in the medals in Men's all-around gymnastics?

    Joe

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    Well, all I can say is....BOOOOOO! What a load of steaming crap. I can't believe FIG has decided to leave it up to others to fix THEIR mistakes. I hope Paul doesn't bow to this cowardly request made by FIG. He and the Korean athlete did nothing wrong. The gymnastics officials peed in their own cheerios on this one...I think they should be responsible for cleaning up the mess. And, asking Paul to give his medal back is not cleaning up the mess. It is creating a new one.

    BTW, is Kim then supposed to give his medal to Hamm?
    Exactly. How in the world will that work? Will we get a double silver now? Ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    Didn't Rogge make a comment to Costas that there will be no change in the medals in Men's all-around gymnastics?

    Joe
    ASFAIK, the IOC insists it's up to FIG's ruling. This time Rogge diddn't put any pressure on FIG (unlike SLC he threaten to remove ice dancing from Olympics), IMO, because he dosn't feel the tremondouse pressure from the media. And I believe NA audiances has more market value to IOC than Korean.
    Last edited by mzheng; 08-27-2004 at 06:00 PM.

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    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    I am so tired of this "Yeah, we screwed up, but it's up to Hamm to make it right" attitude by the officials. If it's up to the GYMNASTS to make everything right, why don't they let the GYMNASTS judge the competition and score each other to begin with?? They'd probably do a much better job than the group of bumbling idiots they picked to officiate in Athens.

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    This time Rogge diddn't put any pressure on FIG (unlike SLC he threaten to remove ice dancing from Olympics), IMO, because he dosn't feel the tremondouse pressure from the media. And I believe NA audiances has more market value to IOC than Korean. -- MZheng
    Sadly I think you have a point. The only reason IOC took a hand in the Salt Lake City affair was because of the North American media yelling at the top of their lungs. The scandal threatened the financial investment of big U.S. Olympic sponsors like Chevrolet, Allstate, etc.
    Hey, I have no problem with protests. If anything, I think US rhythmnic gymnastics officials are correct to file protest over individual qualifications standings -- not because they have a point (I have no idea if they do), but because the federation should work in its athletes' best interests...However, the sports officials should be above this. -- Ptichka
    Well, if it's protesting that you like, you are living in the right era. I just watched the men's basketball semi-finals between Italy and Lithuania. On every play, two players came close together, one of them flopped on the floor more dramatically than the other, then jumped up and demanded a foul. (Or was that the soccer match I am thinking of?)

    Anyway, if the gymnastics thing is organized like the ISU for skating, the answer is, no, they can't rise above the bickering of the member federations. The ISU is an association of national federations. The federations control the judging and everything else. I agree, it is absolutely the duty of each federation to do evertything they can to get the gold medal for their country, including fussing and fuming to the media and cutting deals with each other -- therein lies the problem, IMO.
    One of those judges they suspended coaches in the Cleveland area. His employer and friend points out that he studied and practiced judging because his dream was to be an Olympic judge. He did this inspite of missing work (and pay) and footing the costs himself. The judges are like the ones in figure skating. --Johio
    Thank you so much for that post, Jo. That's the best point yet. The judges are human beings, too, and worthy of our support and thanks.
    Maybe the result of this will be a movement for judges to be paid employees of the international federation? Yeah, right away. Just like in figure skating!
    Out of the frying pan into the fire! I support this idea (as does Cinquanta). But then, who guards the guardians?

    Mathman

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    Anyway, if the gymnastics thing is organized like the ISU for skating, the answer is, no, they can't rise above the bickering of the member federations. The ISU is an association of national federations. The federations control the judging and everything else. I agree, it is absolutely the duty of each federation to do evertything they can to get the gold medal for their country, including fussing and fuming to the media and cutting deals with each other -- therein lies the problem, IMO.Thank you so much for that post, Jo. That's the best point yet. The judges are human beings, too, and worthy of our support and thanks.Out of the frying pan into the fire! I support this idea (as does Cinquanta). But then, who guards the guardians?

    Mathman
    According to this article in International Gymnast, it was the Korean judge, Kim, on the B-panel (execution) that pointed out the mistaken start value for Yang Tae Young's parallel bar routine to supervision Beckstead, and to this judge that Beckstead said that the 9.9 was correct. The Korean team said they could only see the start value on their way to the next routine and were shocked. However, they didn't file a protest. The judge, Kim, went to Korea official Yoo at the end of the high bar -- the end of the next routine -- to tell her that the start value was not correct. From everything I've read, this is too late to file a protest. (Why the judges in error, after a post-competition review, a technical committee member, and the head of the technical committee still encouraged Yoo to file a written protest isn't explained.)

    Judges from one country advocating for athletes from their team during a competition? Where have we seen that one before?

    http://www.intlgymnast.com/events/20...ews_korea.html

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    Sorry if anyone else has already posted this, but I was on Skate Fans and someone posted a link to the FIG letter and the US response.

    FIG letter
    http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_yl...wire&type=lgns

    US Response
    http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news;_yl...wire&type=lgns

    What I find interesting is this quote:
    Further, we strongly urge you to not release your letter to the media or make your request of Mr. Hamm known publicly in any manner at any time. We also urge you to immediately transmit the same directive to any individual or group to whom you may have provided a copy of your letter.
    Apparently that request came to late because this is everywhere and this is getting crazy.

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    I read that, looks like the same article, that Korean coach talked to the US referee who over see the A panel and was told the SV was correct, and he went on endup the conversation. Then Kim told them it was wrong, Korean talked to to the two A panel judges again, A panel judges looked into it then both of them addmitted that they indeed made the mistake. Two A panel judges addmitted the mistakes that night. Korean was told to WRITE a protest.

    Honestly, I'mn feed up with this mess. Though I've never been a fan of Korean's sportsmanship, but in this case my sympthy goes to Korean guy.

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    Sorry mzheng, I have to disagree with you a little.

    I feel sorry for both gymnasts involved but little sympathy for the Korean Fed.

    Human error happens all the time. The coaches and federations should be ready to protest the obvious errors at the correct time and they should know the process. I don't buy the fact that "a camera was in the way" so they couldn't see the score and it was too late to do anything then. Did someone nail their feet to the floor so they couldn't get a different viewpoint? Are they unable to bend and move to see around a camera? Did the process rules get changed 2 minutes before the meet?

    Any coach or federation should be watching those start values like a hawk. I bet you anything that everyone will be paying very close attention now. And they will also know the rules.

    *I'm living proof right now of human error. I've corrected spelling errors 3 times now*

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