2017-2018 Grand Prix Selection

SnowWhite · May 27, 2017

ice coverage said:
What I linked to is an official news release from the ISU. (As opposed to a news "article" from a third party, which would be a different kettle of fish.)

I find it quite implausible that the ISU officially has publicized the guarantee for at least the past three seasons -- if such a guarantee were (supposedly) not really in effect.
YMMV.

(In this thread, I linked to only the 2016-17 ISU news release, but in previous GS posts, I had linked to the corresponding ISU news releases from 2015-16 and 2014-15.
And yes, I am well aware that the announcements in those same years did not mention the guarantee. Nor did the announcements say that there was no guarantee.)

Fair point that it's been there for multiple years, though there are other contradictions in the news release compared to the official announcement. The news release says top 12 in pairs and dance are guaranteed two spots, the announcement says top ten, so it might be possible that there was a mistake.

karne · May 27, 2017

cheerknithanson said:
I bet you're hoping and praying you can go to Japan to see the NHK Trophy for Josh. I mean, you live in Australia, which is geographically closer to Japan than North America or Europe. I think.....And also the time zone change won't be as harsh on you.

Too expensive for me at the wrong time of year. Even though it's not far flights to Japan aren't cheap, and I'd not like my chances of getting a ticket.

SnowWhite said:
So that leaves six spots, one of which could have gone to A/W in theory. D/F and S/BA both might have been host picks for their second, so that's about giving your skaters chances, not about who else it might have been.

And didn't, because big country fed vs little country fed.

Seriously, you people wonder why I complain about the power imbalances all the time, THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE RIGHT HERE. Little country JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONS overlooked for GP spots because big country feds freaking out and protecting their lower-ranked pairs. Hoping against hope, probably, that Katia and Harley won't be able to pick up enough ranking point to improve their standings, because they'll be banished to Senior Bs, and meanwhile the lower-ranked big-country pairs get to cruise around the GP picking up points that are worth more.

And don't tell me it has nothing to do with them being afraid - the Russians and co were pissed that Katia and Harley beat them at JW.

4everchan said:
However, I dislike the same banter about big fed did this big fed did that....

That would be because your big-country privilege is blinding you to the genuine issue of the power imbalances at play. Katia and Harley are THE ONLY JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONS SNUBBED. They are also the only Junior World Champions who are from a little skating country. You can't tell me that's a coincidence. And pairs they beat, PAIRS THEY BEAT AT SENIOR WORLDS GOT GP ASSIGNMENTS.

SnowWhite · May 27, 2017

karne said:
Too expensive for me at the wrong time of year. Even though it's not far flights to Japan aren't cheap, and I'd not like my chances of getting a ticket.

And didn't, because big country fed vs little country fed.

Seriously, you people wonder why I complain about the power imbalances all the time, THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE RIGHT HERE. Little country JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONS overlooked for GP spots because big country feds freaking out and protecting their lower-ranked pairs. Hoping against hope, probably, that Katia and Harley won't be able to pick up enough ranking point to improve their standings, because they'll be banished to Senior Bs, and meanwhile the lower-ranked big-country pairs get to cruise around the GP picking up points that are worth more.

And don't tell me it has nothing to do with them being afraid - the Russians and co were pissed that Katia and Harley beat them at JW.

That would be because your big-country privilege is blinding you to the genuine issue of the power imbalances at play. Katia and Harley are THE ONLY JUNIOR WORLD CHAMPIONS SNUBBED. They are also the only Junior World Champions who are from a little skating country. You can't tell me that's a coincidence. And pairs they beat, PAIRS THEY BEAT AT JGP TALLIN AND JUNIOR WORLDS GOT ASSIGNMENTS.

They are also the only JWC who were not guaranteed a spot. So federation isn't the only difference. I have no doubt that if their fed hosted they'd get spots, but that's not the same as the big feds trying to keep them down. And Like I said before, all the teams that got spots were above them on the SB list, so they weren't exactly snubbed for a lower caliber team. And also who are those pairs who they beat who got assignments? Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't find them.
These are the pairs that got spots:
AUT - Ziegler / Kiefer (senior team)
CAN - Duhamel/Radford, Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch, Seguin/Bilodeau, Moore-Towers/Marinaro, and TBD (all senior teams)
CHN - Sui/Han, Yu/Zhang, Peng/Jin, Wang/Wang, TBD (all senior teams)
CZE - Duskova/Bidar (weren't at JP Tallinn or JW 2017, are JWC from 2016)
FRA - James/Cipres, TBD (senior team)
GER - Savchenko/Massot (senior team)
ITA - Marchei/Hotarek, Della Monica/Guarise (senior teams)
JPN - Suto/Boudreau-Audet, TBD (senior team)
RUS - Tarasova/Morozov, Stolbova/Klimov, Zabiiako/Enbert, Astakhova/Rogonov, TBD (all senior teams)
USA - Scimeca Knierim/Knierim, Denney/Frazier, Kayne/O'Shea, Castelli/Tran, TBD (all senior teams)
None of these teams except Duskova/Bidar were juniors at all last season AFAIR, and D/B did beat them at Worlds and are also JWC.

ETA: oh I see you changed that to senior worlds. Okay, that makes more sense. Though, as I said, those teams were still higher in SB, which I believe has more of an effect on GP selections, and S/BA and D/F getting chosen by their feds isn't to push A/W down, but just to support their own teams. Is it an advantage that they host and can do that? Yes it is, and that might be unfair, but any fed would support their teams first, and not just out of fear or spite or whatever. So it's really just Z/K, who only got the one spot.

4everchan · May 27, 2017

^^ thanks for correcting your flawed information in your previous post karne

yes... i am from a big country in terms of skating.... that doesn't mean i won't make my own judgments.

I think, in an olympic year, it would be worse to deny a senior pair who has a better SB. Sorry not sorry.

Finally, maybe adopting a positive attitude would be ideal here.

1) thank big fed mother Russia for releasing Katia (and Canada + others for providing so many countries with good male partners and developing the sport worldwide)
2) think positively about the fact that 6 assignments have not been made, 2 of which come from countries with very little depth in pairs. In a few weeks, Katia and Harley may get a spot.... and your ire would have proven unnecessary
3) instead of blaming others for what is not happening right, why not ask yourself (your federation) what they could do to facilitate Katia and Harley's arrival in seniors.

It gets tiring to always hear that because you are a fan from a big federation that you do not understand the issues of small federations.... I wish to see the Aussies compete as well.... not only in GP but at Olympics and for many many years. Let's wish them the best. And BTW : if they didn't get a high enough SB, it's because many other teams have better elements than they do... give them time to establish themselves... Wolfe and Ruest that I have mentioned earlier have better scores and also didn't get a GP assignment yet.... and they have a lot of work to do still to reach the top 15 yet alone the top 10.... it's like you want them on the Olympic podium right away.... I wonder who is blinded

ice coverage · May 27, 2017

SnowWhite said:
Fair point that it's been there for multiple years, though there are other contradictions in the news release compared to the official announcement. The news release says top 12 in pairs and dance are guaranteed two spots, the announcement says top ten, so it might be possible that there was a mistake.

I now have gone back to look at the older ISU official news releases.

The language re the guarantee for the Junior World medalists did not appear in the official ISU news release for the 2012-13 GP season.

But the guarantee has been publicized in the official ISU news releases for every subsequent season, up to and including 2016-17.

So for the 2013-14 season, a human being at the ISU must have actively added the language re the guarantee.
If the guarantee were not really going to be in effect, I cannot imagine why someone would have added language about the guarantee. YMMV.

Adding the older links:

2012-13: http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...rix-of-figure-skating-series-20122013-preview (published in Oct 2012)

2013-14:

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...rix-of-figure-skating-series-20132014-preview (Jun 2013)
http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...-skating-hilton-hhonors-skate-america-preview (Oct 2013)

2014-15: http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...isu-grand-prix-of-figure-skating-2014-preview (Oct 2014)

2015-16: http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pair-skating-and-ice-dance/news/2015/10/gp-preview (Oct 2015)

Again, I do recognize that the documents from 2013-14 and forward are not necessarily applicable to 2017-18.
So my current theory is that the ISU has made a change for 2017-18. YMMV.

4everchan · May 27, 2017

^^ my theory is much simpler.

If it were an official rule for the current JWC to get a spot, then the aussies would be in... no doubt about that.

4everchan · May 27, 2017

or there could have been a honest mistake.... easily fixable by the ISU by having one of the TBC go to the Aussies. voilà

ice coverage · May 27, 2017

4everchan said:
^^ my theory is much simpler.

If it were an official rule for the current JWC to get a spot, then the aussies would be in... no doubt about that.

For the last four seasons, the ISU did think that Junior World medalists deserved the guarantee (with no requirement for any other justification for a spot).
(Didn't matter what you or I or any other fan thought about the guarantee.)

But (barring a dumb mistake) now the ISU apparently has changed its mind about the guarantee.
Which is a bummer for Katia and Harley.

That is all that I am saying.

chameleon · May 27, 2017

Not only were A/W the only JWC that weren't guaranteed a spot from the SB list, they're in the discipline with the smallest amount of spots available. Duskova/Bidar are hardly from a powerful Fed but they got two spots. I do really hope A/W get at least one GP spot this season, and that they keep building to really start breaking through.

Taan · May 27, 2017

karne said:
WHERE THE HECK ARE KATIA AND HARLEY?!!??!?! Are the big feds too CHICKEN to put their skaters against them?! Every other JWC got a spot!

I totally agree , I really like this team they ooze potential !!! unfair!!

cathlen · May 27, 2017

Usually, I don't agree that being form small fed means you're overlooked. But the fact that Coomes/Buckland have no GP at all proves there is something in it. Penny is quite dissapointed: https://twitter.com/PennyCoomes/status/868190252430753792 And I am too. As a top 10 team in season 15/16 they should be able use a return skater status. But they're left without anything.

karne · May 27, 2017

4everchan said:
1) thank big fed mother Russia for releasing Katia (and Canada + others for providing so many countries with good male partners and developing the sport worldwide)

Seriously?! The little countries should just kowtow and be grateful because the big countries condescended to let them exist? That's your rebuttal here?! This condescending "well you should just be thankful" is how I'm supposed to react?! (And what the hell does Canada have to do with this conversation? Harley is an Indigenous Australian. No matter how much you so desperately want it Canada can't lay claim to a single iota of this team.

4everchan said:
3) instead of blaming others for what is not happening right, why not ask yourself (your federation) what they could do to facilitate Katia and Harley's arrival in seniors.

Hmm, let's see. Last time I checked, there's no Grand Prix in Australia. There's no Senior B in Australia. The Australian fed wasn't exactly rolling in cash. Figure skating gets barely a crumb of the OWI's funding. So sorry, what exactly are we supposed to be doing to "facilitate" Katia and Harley's arrival in Seniors that doesn't already get done?! As Junior World Champions, they shouldn't need their own fed to "facilitate" them, the ISU should be doing it, it should be guaranteed!

4everchan said:
It gets tiring to always hear that because you are a fan from a big federation that you do not understand the issues of small federations....

I think your comments above have absolutely proven you have NO IDEA of the problems and the disadvantages little countries face.

Skatefan15 · May 27, 2017

Well I'm EXTREMELY disappointed about the SA line up in general. I was hoping for Yuzu or Max :sad21: looks like I'll be spending Thanksgiving at home :slink:

MaiKatze · May 27, 2017

I think the reshuffling of the order is really unfortunate. Why was that done again?

Barb · May 27, 2017

karne said:
I think your comments above have absolutely proven you have NO IDEA of the problems and the disadvantages little countries face.

it is true, but Javier Fernandez and Olivia and Adria are from Spain (small federation) too. If you can´t have a powerful federation, at least try to get a powerful coach.

zebobes · May 27, 2017

It's really hard to get a pair Grand Prix. Last year's junior champions, Duskova and Bidar, chose to go stay on the JGP last year for one more year because they couldn't get a GP spot. It seems to have worked out for them this year- they have enough points in the standings so that they got two spots already. Unfortunately for A/W, this year is the Olympic season, so its even more difficult than usual to get on the GP. The US this year only has two pairs with two spots.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

karne · May 27, 2017

chapis said:
it is true, but Javier Fernandez and Olivia and Adria are from Spain (small federation) too. If you can´t have a powerful federation, at least try to get a powerful coach.

You mean like oh...I don't know...Nina Mozer?

zebobes said:
It's really hard to get a pair Grand Prix. Last year's junior champions, Duskova and Bidar, chose to go stay on the JGP last year for one more year because they couldn't get a GP spot. It seems to have worked out for them this year-

Whatever Duskova and Bidar chose to do last year is irrelevant, because this is the OLYMPIC season. It is a completely different beast. You cannot treat it like a regular season. And the pairs events on the JGP are far too close to Nebelhorn.

This reeks and I'm furious. But hey, it's just a little country pair, so it's fine, right? Gotta protect those precious big-country pairs.

Oh wait, I forgot. For some reason I'm supposed to be thankful. :rolleye:

nguyhm · May 27, 2017

It will be hard for Mirai and Mariah to medal at their GPs. Glad Mariah has 2 spots this season though.

4everchan · May 27, 2017

karne said:
And what the hell does Canada have to do with this conversation? Harley is an Indigenous Australian. No matter how much you so desperately want it Canada can't lay claim to a single iota of this team.

I think your comments above have absolutely proven you have NO IDEA of the problems and the disadvantages little countries face.

1) my comment about Canada has NOTHING to do with Australia... nope... i added that in there to see how many skaters it has released to make it possible for smaller feds to compete. Japanese pairs have depended on the Canadian coaches and partners. It is slowly building there. The Danes wouldn't be there without a Canadian partner and coaching staff in ice dance... etc etc etc... please.. where did I say that this had to do with Harley? give me a break... it's not always about Australia.

alvina9894 · May 27, 2017

s_parks said:
I think S/H's assignments are ideal; it's back to back, but there'll be minimum travelling.

There will not be jet lag issue, it's around the time zone of the Olympics, and due to the close proximity composition of the crowd would also be similar.

Their only long flight next season would be WC.

2017-2018 Grand Prix Selection

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