Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 119

Thread: Michelle skating to Bolero - good or bad choice?

  1. #16
    Custom Title Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by Piel
    "..........Torville and Dean who were in the first row were heard to say "Why didn't WE think of that interpretation?' Legendary coach Tatiana Tarosova overcome with emotion after seeing Kwan's performance told the media"of course Bolero has been used before in skating competition, but NEVER has it been skated to with such passion or the elements completed with such perfection as La Kwan(trademark Joesitz)". Robin Wagner announced her retirement."

    I can't wait to see Michelle's interpretation. Before I read Piel's and Mathman's commentary, I thought it was a bad idea!

  2. #17
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    747
    Bolero has been described here as repetitive by some and by GI as "big". I don't know whether Ravel had Alzheimers or not. Just off the top of my head and I don't own a Grove's music dictionary, I believe Ravel regret composing this piece, late in life, he couldn't stand Bolero, and kind of despised the audience who made it popular. It was meant to be a piece for orchestration exercise. It became popular, hmmm for Dudley Moore and Bo Derrick reasons? Since Ravel was the composer, I trust his own assessment of this piece as just an orchestration exercise, not too much more music worth to it.

    That does not mean that amazing skaters can not turn it into a masterpiece. What did the match maker told Mulan about a silk purse? T&D did it. I think among singles skaters currently MK is the one who also has the ability to elevate this piece of music into a masterpiece. Great skaters do not need the most perfect piece of music, just like true beauty does not need make up. So I will have to disagree with some posters view that Bolero is not good for skating period.

    I have no idea why GI associated this piece of music with "big". There is nothing grand about the orchestration, it is no Mahler #8, Brian's Gothic symphony, Beethoven's missa solemnis, or Verdi's requiem. It is not grand in terms of all other criteria that we use to measure great masterpieces of music. Dudley Moore, and Bo Derreck made it BIG I guess. BTW, GI from our last discussion on Wagner's music, I remember that you can't even handle Wagner's Siegried Idyll, I perfectly understand why you think Ravel's Bolero is BIG. Maybe you should start with R. Strauss sinfonia domestica first.
    Last edited by rtureck; 09-02-2004 at 12:09 PM.

  3. #18
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    470
    There was a rumor some months ago that Chris Dean himself was the one who choreographed Bolero for Kwan.

    I really didn't believe it then. Now that her SP and LP choices are basically confirmed by a reliable source, I wonder if Chris Dean really did choreograph it for Kwan.

  4. #19
    Go NJ Devils
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    What I don't understand is how Michelle manages to keep her music selections secret every year. There are thousands of people who are interested in this, and many who would love to be the hero who gets the big scoop for the Internet boards. Fans go to her practices and hang out with people who know her or her coach or choreographers. Still, the only thing we have to comfort ourselves in the off season is one rumor after another.
    There's a post on FSU that says that The Lion King music was tied up in some kind of copyright dispute and that she had to change her music.

  5. #20
    Go NJ Devils
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck
    Bolero has been described here as repetitive by some and by GI as "big". I don't know whether Ravel had Alzheimers or not. Just off the top of my head and I don't own a Grove's music dictionary, I believe Ravel regret composing this piece, late in life, he couldn't stand Bolero, and kind of despised the audience who made it popular. It was meant to be a piece for orchestration exercise.
    Bolero was a commission from Ida Rubenstein for a ballet. (Here is one of many citations on the Internet: http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3335230) She choregraphed a "table dance," just as Bejart later did. The music was meant to be mechanical, grinding, and repetitive, and to be performed slowly throughout.

    I have heard before that Ravel hated the piece and was furious that audiences liked Bolero best of all of his music. However, I can't find in this anywhere in Concise Grove. (I checked the online version at andante.com.)

    I also read on andante.com that there's a new documentary out called What Made Mozart Tic? that suggests that Mozart may have suffered from Tourette's Syndrome.

    http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=24341

    This link will be active only for a few weeks. I can't find this on the Birmingham Post (original source) online site. However, I did learn that there's going to be a Bollywood festival in Birmingham...

  6. #21
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,912
    "There's a post on FSU that says that The Lion King music was tied up in some kind of copyright dispute and that she had to change her music. -- Hockyfan
    Gosh, doesn't Disney own the Lion King? Doesn't Michelle own Disney?
    There was a rumor some months ago that Chris Dean himself was the one who choreographed Bolero for Kwan.

    I really didn't believe it then. Now that her SP and LP choices are basically confirmed by a reliable source, I wonder if Chris Dean really did choreograph it for Kwan." -- VietTerrificGirl
    How cool will that be if Christopher Dean worked with Michelle on this! Didn't he do the Miraculous Mandarin for her?

    OT --
    "What did the match maker tell Mulan about a silk purse?" -- RTureck
    "This is what you give me to work with?
    Well, honey, I've seen worse.
    We're going to turn this sow's ear
    Into a silk purse.

    Now add a cricket, just for luck,
    You'll bring honor to us all!"

    http://www.angelfire.com/movies/disn...way/mulan.html

    Guess what I just found out about that old proverb? It comes from a French word "sousier," which was a cheep cotton change purse for carrying your "sou" (a small coin).

    MM

  7. #22
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,912
    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan228
    I have heard before that Ravel hated the piece and was furious that audiences liked Bolero best of all of his music.
    It's interesting how many artists are surprised and sometimes embarassed by what the public likes. I have read that Tchaikovsky felt the Nutcracker to be rather a trifle in comparison with his "serious" music.

    I wonder how Dickens would have felt to know that 150 years later most people know him prmarily as the creator of Ebenezer Scrooge.

    And many years after Einstein came up with the Theory of Reletivity they finally got around to giving him a Nobel prize -- for an early paper on a completely different topic (the photoelectric effect).

    Mathman

  8. #23
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Newark
    Posts
    470
    I think the whole Lion King rumor was just someone having a laugh at the expense of Kwan fans.

    Peter Oppegard choreographed Miraculous Mandarin. Chris Dean choreographed her short-lived Rush SP.

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,037
    I don't know why I don't care what music Michelle is skating to as long as it's interesting with detailed choreography (long program especially). It's been awhile since she's had interesting choreography in her long programs. Her shorts have been great.

  10. #25
    Go NJ Devils
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    2,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    Gosh, doesn't Disney own the Lion King? Doesn't Michelle own Disney?
    Well, according to this poster, Disney didn't own it afterall, due to a South African law. Could be total bunk, but I thought I'd mention it as a possibility.

    Re: composers, Sir Arthur Sullivan spent his life trying to write "serious music" and was a very unhappy man when he realized his legacy was the music he wrote for Gilbert's libretti.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    747
    So Ravel became rich and famous with Bolero, received a commision and was immortalized by Dudley and Bo, with a piece just for orchestral exercise.

    http://www.good-music-guide.com/revi...vel_bolero.htm


    Bolero
    Bolero began as an experiment in composition and became Ravel's most famous piece of music. Commissioned as a Spanish-flavoured ballet, Ravel created an entire orchestral composition from just one short theme, slowly, steadily building in volume and tone. Ravel himself referring to it as a “piece for orchestra without music”
    When it comes to dance maybe Joesitz will enlighten us on the difference between fandango, and Tarantella, or Ravel's Pavane from Ravel's Bolero.

    I think MK and Shizuka are both good for elevating Bolero. And for Sasha Cohen I think another piece of Ravel dance music will suit her much better.
    Last edited by rtureck; 09-02-2004 at 02:11 PM.

  12. #27
    Master Procrastinator
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Michigan, USA!
    Posts
    918
    I believe you Tony! You have never steered us wrong yet. Thanks for putting the rumor mills to rest. I for one appreciate it!

    I also am going to wait until I *see* the program before I decide it is a bad choice. (What a novel idea!)

  13. #28
    Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    281
    My gut reaction to this is that it will be difficult for Michelle to pull this piece of music off - but I will reserve judgement until I see her perform the program, if indeed she will be using Bolero.

    Bolero was never a piece of music that I particularly liked but every now and then a skater, dancer, whatever comes along and makes even the most diabolical piece of music their own and I feel that is what T&D did with Bolero, everything came right for them, the music, the dance, the costumes, the dancers themselves, much like Gordeeva and Grinkov and Moonlight Sonata.

    My personal opinion is that Michelle skates better to music that allows her to make the most of her ability to be sultry like Scherazde.

  14. #29
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185
    RTurek -

    When it comes to dance maybe Joesitz will enlighten us on the difference between fandango, and Tarantella, or Ravel's Pavane from Ravel's Bolero.

    I'm definitely showing early signs of onset dementia but I am not that old yet.

    The fandango is one of those lively dances (triple time stuff) usually danced with castanets. Very popular in South American night club acts.

    Tarantella, I believe is a southern Italian dance which according to lore was created to effect a cure on people with a nervous condition. There have been many popular songs written in the mode of Tarantella, and an Italian wedding in Brooklyn is not complete without all of the guests dancing it.

    The Pavane, I believe is of French origin and seems to be a court dance, at least that's what I get out of those stories from movies of the 15th and 16th centuries a la Romeo and Juliet.

    And Bolero, as far as I know, is a ball room dance originating in Spain a litle slower than the pasa doble, but I am not sure. I've never seen it on the dance floor. Anyone know the temp of the bolero? and whether it is still danced other than Ravel.

    My favorite Cole Porter tune is Begin the Beguine (not as performed in the recent movie). The Beguine is a South American dance. It is similar to the bolero but much more intriguing, for me. I would much have preferred Michelle to get a good recording of Begin the Beguine. She'd be heaven swaying to that music leaving all onwatchers enamorado

    Joe

  15. #30
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by lavender
    I don't know why I don't care what music Michelle is skating to as long as it's interesting with detailed choreography (long program especially). It's been awhile since she's had interesting choreography in her long programs. Her shorts have been great.
    I agree with you, lavender. A friend and I have said that the choreography for her LP the past few years has been so predictable: Open with triple loop, next is the triple lutz combo, the flip is somewhere in the middle, the spiral is towards the end, etc. Before, the order of jumps, spins, and footwork varied from year to year. But Scheherezade, Aranjuez, and Tosca basically followed the same pattern. Plus, some of the footwork sequences were not as difficult or interesting.

    It would be interesting if she used Bolero and Dean choreographed it. However, if she used him before and eventually ditched the program, would she turn to him again? And would he accept? I don't know what the protocol is - if there is any.

    Herm (sk8ngnutt)
    Last edited by hrmsk8ngnutt; 09-02-2004 at 06:08 PM.

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Compilations on Hughes; Cohen; Nikodenov; Goebel; & Yagudin!
    By springerluv in forum 2012-13 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-04-2005, 11:59 AM
  2. Marshall's as seen on TV
    By Joesitz in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-11-2004, 12:02 PM
  3. Men's Free - Notes & Results
    By Rosaleen in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-25-2004, 11:56 PM
  4. Ladies Short Program - Notes & Results
    By Rosaleen in forum 2003-04 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-23-2004, 10:11 AM
  5. objectively speaking
    By engrsktr in forum 2002-03 Figure Skating archives
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 04-08-2003, 09:05 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •