Michelle skating to Bolero - good or bad choice? | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Michelle skating to Bolero - good or bad choice?

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
OK, forget what I wrote above. I just watched my tape of The Feeling Begins. It would be like that, right? :love: :love: :love:

MM
Except that The Feeling Begins is a short program, and the LP is 1.5 minutes longer.
 

Lucy25

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
I find it fascinating that Michelle choose this music. It would be tricky and is someone else's signature piece. I have to trust she knows what she is doing here. She is no dummy. I am sure she knows how people are going to react when they hear her choice. And if it turns out that Christopher Dean did indeed help her with this, it becomes even more fascinating!
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
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Jul 26, 2003
How reliable is this source? I don't find any mention to it at MKF........they always seem to be on top of things. 42
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
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Jul 26, 2003
Thanks Vietgrl..........didn't think to check there...... :eek: 42
 

Lotta

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
"Bolero" is really boring music. Therefore, if Michelle skated to it, it will be boring and that would make me sad. :(
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I didn't know whether or not to make a new thread about this or not (there are enough MK threads all over the place :rolleye: ), but apparently Brenda had a slip over at the USFS board and the Lion King rumour has been "confirmed" false:

http://board.usfigureskating.org/default.asp?action=9&read=6007&fid=3

So much for that. Whether she really is skating to Bolero or not, we'll just have to see. Personally, Bolero is one of the few classical pieces that I like, but I really can't imagine seeing anyone (yes, even MK) skate to music like that and see myself really enjoying it.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - Bolero, for me, does nothing except when dancing or skating to it as an ensemble. Although I have never seen the Fokine ballet (not sure if it was Fokine) I am sure that Ida Rubenstein, who was limited in her technique, did not do much more than a few bars of the music and rest was done by the corps de ballet.

I agree with Ravel, it is music he disliked the most of his compositions. Not unlike Tschaikowsky who hated his ballet music. No composer wants to be told to write for dancers so they can do 8 beats of this and 8 beats of that.

Hopefully the rumor of Bolero is wrong. I can't see Arutunian approving that music after seeing his star pupil Sasha Abt go down the tubes with it.

Joe
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I have seen skaters take a really nice piece of music and do "nothing" with it. Perhaps Michelle will take an old, worn piece of music and skate a brilliant program!!! :) 42
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
show 42 said:
I have seen skaters take a really nice piece of music and do "nothing" with it. Perhaps Michelle will take an old, worn piece of music and skate a brilliant program!!! :) 42
I'll buy that, Show. :)

Joe
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
I think, if true, this would be a horrible choice of music for Kwan. It doesn't have enough ups and downs for her to skate to well. She is a skater who is very tied to her music - a good thing, IMO - so a really bad piece of music can sink her. Not that Bolero is bad per se, just not right for Kwan - or any singles skater really. It's too blah. Also, using someone's else's signature? Gotta be careful on that one.
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
Taan said:
there are rumors rampant around the net Michelle is skating to Bolero. I just dont think this is a good choice - this music is so cliche in the skating world. Michelle needs to drop Bolero ASAP and go back to skating to unused, original, and beautiful selections of music@@!@!!!! :eek:

Michelle Kwan skating to "Bolero"? Heaven forbid. :eek: :eek: IMHO, nobody under the sun will ever deliver an interpretion of "Bolero" as magical and perfect as Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean. They took that piece of music and crafted a masterpiece of a long program for the 1984 competitive season - one that was rewarded with a raft of well-deserved 6.0s.

I certainly hope that Michelle Kwan has a sense of the history of figure skating and respects that some music is best left alone. You simply cannot top perfection, plain and simple.

There is so much wonderful music out there, and so much of is has NOT been skated to, ad naseum, by numerous skaters.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I'm still listening. Now that Joe has put into my head the idea that this music is for all the dancers to come out one by one for their bows, I can't seem to rid myself of that interpretation. Yes, the music starts soft and gets louder, but does it really "build" to anything, besides loudness? If Michelle can make something of it, like Show42 says, my hat is off to her.

Still, I can imagine it happening in my mind's eye. What Michelle has to do is use the music as a backdrop and then give a performance that devours and overwhelms our senses. She has to look good, feel good, smell good, taste good. She has to go out there with the attitude, let the others hop, skip and jump as much as they please, this audience belongs to me.:love:

Mathman
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
I'm still listening. Now that Joe has put into my head the idea that this music is for all the dancers to come out one by one for their bows, I can't seem to rid myself of that interpretation. Yes, the music starts soft and gets louder, but does it really "build" to anything, besides loudness? If Michelle can make something of it, like Show42 says, my hat is off to her.
Bolero was meant by Ravel to reflect the relentlessness of machinery, quite a common theme of turn-of-the-century (19th to 20th) art. I think the reasons it worked so well for Torvill and Dean in 1984 are:

1. They are ice dancers, and ice dancers do not need music to reflect the build-up entries into jumps (Klimkins 3S out of camel spins not withstanding), the long standard entries into throws, the contrasts of height needed for twists and other overhead lifts, or fast spins with multiple changes of positions.

2. Ice Dance in 1984 had more restrictive rules for how long a couple could be apart, the types of lifts they could do, etc. Since Torvill and Dean were pushing the envelope in general, it was a bit of a metaphor for them to use changes of edge and direction, constantly intertwining arms and upper bodies, and imaginative (low) lifts against the intentional drone of the music.

It will be interesting to see what Kwan's choreographer can make of a piece of music that doesn't have a natural arc and flow for the meat of singles or pairs skating moves.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
Bolero was meant by Ravel to reflect the relentlessness of machinery, quite a common theme of turn-of-the-century (19th to 20th) art.

And remember Jean Renoir's A Nous La Liberte?

It will be interesting to see what Kwan's choreographer can make of a piece of music that doesn't have a natural arc and flow for the meat of singles or pairs skating moves.

ITA!!! Anyone have any idea who Kwan's choreographer is?

Joe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for that analysis, Hockeyfan. That helps me come to grips with what I am feeling about this music.

Mathman
 

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Going back to original question is Bolero a good / bad choice. I think neither. It has the potential to be good, and poetential to be bad. Using this piece -> high reward and high risk. It was high risks for even T&D or dance.

So far this is just rumors, but if Michelle is skating to Bolero, I think MK is smart enough to know the risks. I speculate that she knows the reactions from detractors about she does not have a sense of skating history, or no matter how well she skates to it they won't enjoy it blah blah.... So I am wondering why make this choice. Maybe she is not even aiming at medals and marks as the only reward. This piece is stated by many as a huge challenge for a single skater (or for dance prior to T&D ). If any skater who can afford to take some risks at choosing an almost unskateable piece, should be Michelle.

Even thugh I am not exactly fascinated by the music value of Bolero, it is not an offensive piece either. Many people love this piece for different reasons. IIRC Karl Haas in one of his adventures in good music comment on the fascination with Bolero is the building up to a crescendo, with no variation of the theme at all, and listeners look for a release / resolution from the build up.

According to the naxos liner note on the cd Bolero and other Spanish favorites: "Boléro's two thematic elements are linked by the continuing percussion rhythm that gives the work its hypnotic fascination."

So I think MK chooses Bolero for the main reward of pleasing some of her die hard fans. Will her fans be elevated to 7th heaven with hypnotic fascination? Will her fans be having an out of body experience of crescendo resolution? or both? :laugh:

Off topic:

I guess technically there is no variation in terms of genius tricks e.g. Beetrhoven's Diabelli variation, JS Bach's Goldberg variation, Rachmaninov's variation on a theme of Paganini, or Brahms variation on a theme of Hadyn. Ravel's variation using this term loosely is on the orchestration color. Evidently it works for some listeners very well.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
rtureck said:
Will her fans be elevated to 7th heaven with hypnotic fascination?
Yes.
Will her fans be having an out of body experience of crescendo resolution?
Yes.
Yes. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Maybe she is not even aiming at medals and marks as the only reward.
I think this is true. I think we will look back on this period of Michelle's career (starting in 2003) as the blossoming of her artistic maturity.

Mathman
 
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