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Thread: Michelle skating to Bolero - good or bad choice?

  1. #106
    SkateFan4Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01
    I totally disagree with this. Why should a piece of music be 'retired' just because someone had a great skate to it? Does that mean Don Q. should not have been skated to after John Curry's 1976 performance, or nobody should ever skate to Moonlight Sonata because G&G skated great to it? Music is just music and anyone should be allowed to interpret it in his/her own way. Some people may have difficulty accepting someone else skate to their faves' music but that is their problem. Music is forever and it should never be retired, no matter how well anyone skates to it.
    I agree with you, Vash01. Nobody "owns" a piece of music, and each skater who skates to a certain piece of music can lend his/her/their interpretation to it. Granted, "Bolero" will always be associated with the great T & D, but that doesn't mean that another great skater can't take this music another direction, or at least bring out another outstanding performance.

    What I would like to see, however, is for skaters to refrain from skating to the same half dozen or so pieces of classical music. How many more "Carmens" are we going to see? Yes, the music is great for skating, but it's been skated to by SO many other skaters.

    Just my two cents, of course.

  2. #107
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    But Joe and Skatefan4life, didn't you like the Katerina Witt feature-length Carmen on Ice?

    About Michelle, I keep flip-flopping about whether I think this is going to work for her. Michelle skates from the heart, not from the head. The progrms that have touched the audience most deeply are the ones in which Michelle could immerse herself emotionally. East of Eden (the clip from the 1998 World Pro is playing in a realplayer window even as I type ) and Fields of Gold are examples of pretty tunes that don't really have much musical weight, but by the time Michelle is through with you, your emotions have been wrung out and hung up to dry. So if Michelle feels this music, and if it is her own choice, then that's good enough for me.

    In contrast, music like the Black Swan, which Michelle did not pick for herself and never really got into, IMHO, was touch and go for her.

    On the other hand, well, um, I didn't want to be the first to mention sex, LOL, but since it came up...To me, Michelle trying to be sexy is still a lot like a little girl playing dress-up. So I think this will be a challenge to her, because, really, what else is that music good for?

    OT, an example of a "head-skater" instead of a "heart-skater" would be the later Brian Boitano. He thinks about his programs, plans exactly what effect he is going for and how best to achieve it. But then the finished product sometimes lacks emotional sponteneity. JMO.

    Mathman

  3. #108
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Does the music make the performance great, or is it the performance that makes the music great and memorable? I would say that the "Bolero" performance of Torville and Dean was great because "they" are great. Skated by a lesser ice dance team, the effect would not have been the same. Had T and D skated that same performance to, let's say "Tosca", we would be saying the same thing about any other skater or team who would dare skate that opera. Let Michelle skate to "Bolero". She can make it memorable, because she is memorable................42

  4. #109
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  5. #110
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    Mathman - I liked Carmen Jones. I think the show works better as an operetta than an opera. Even when watching opera, I see and hear it as an operetta. Nothing wrong with that but I don't leave the theatre like I saw something special. As for Kat. Those eyelashes batting away at the audience reminded me of those old Pabst silent movies.

    As for Kwan, I also do not see her as a sexy interpreter of music and that is why Scheherazade just didn't do it for me. All these young girls are far too young and too involved with technique to skate in a sexy manner other than to mimic it from what they/ve seen in the movies. They come off 'cute' rather than sexy. Kinda like a beauty pagaent.

    However, Kwan's Salome is a different kettle of fish. Salome is the total opposite of Carmen. Where Carmen is a 'loose' woman, Salome is a virgin but she is coming of age. Kwan got that whether by accident or she actually felt it, I am not sure. I would love to see Kwan skate to Salome now that she has lived a bit more.

    Joe

  6. #111
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    Kwan could be sexy with Sherz but she didn't feel it and that's why it didn't work. It worked for Salome and Taj Mahal so I know it's just that she didn't feel the Sherz music. I really disliked Sherz because I just don't feel that music was Michelle's choice. I know Frank picked it.

  7. #112
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    One of my favorite memories of "Carmen" was a NYC Metropolitan Opera production. In the last scene, the rather zaftig Carmen was wearing a low-cut gown with a train. During the scene, Don Jose (accidentally or deliberately) stepped on the train while Carmen was moving, and the gown slid way down. Carmen was forced to sing the remainder of the opera holding her dress up!

  8. #113
    On Edge Piel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz

    However, Kwan's Salome is a different kettle of fish. Salome is the total opposite of Carmen. Where Carmen is a 'loose' woman, Salome is a virgin but she is coming of age. Kwan got that whether by accident or she actually felt it, I am not sure. I would love to see Kwan skate to Salome now that she has lived a bit more.
    YES!

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman
    II didn't want to be the first to mention sex,..... because, really, what else is that music good for?
    I think that depends on the interpretation. A sensual hypnotic interpretation by HvK is sexy, I mean Karajan's earlier recording. OTOH a razor sharp (kill the tempo with speed) bloodless interpretation by e.g Toscanini is not good for ahem .....

    What else is Bolero good for?

    Nathan Milstein thought this is one of the most depressing piece of music, I don't think he had sex in mind.

    For me I can hear in my mind e.g. substituting Bolero for the invaders theme in DSCH's Leningrad symphony. Actually Shostakovich was afraid people would blame him for copying Bolero style for the (German Nazi) invasion theme in the first movement of Leningrad. DSCH copied a theme from Le Har's Merry Widow and developed that into the war theme !!! He developed the theme (very repetitive) with slightly more variations. I think DSCH showed more skill in variations and just as much in terms of orchestration ( just comparing Bolero to the invader's theme). So Bolero should be good for sex and war. aren't those recurrent and consistent themes in history?

    LOL, but since it came up...To me, Michelle trying to be sexy is still a lot like a little girl playing dress-up.
    MK is kind of sexy without trying, I agree with some posters that she has not tried to be sexy with her prior programs. But IMHO there is more ways to interpret Bolero than the Dudley, Bo interpretation.

    So I think this will be a challenge to her

    Mathman
    Good, as I mentioned before, I think MK is at a point in her career to skate to please her fans, I believe you think that her die hard fans will be elevated to paradise with Bolero.

    Off topic: audience including composers seem to have strong reactions to repetitive theme without much variations. I believe Bartok became so sick of hearing DSCH's invasion theme from Leningrad, he parodied the theme in his concerto for orchestra.
    Last edited by rtureck; 09-18-2004 at 11:28 AM.

  10. #115
    Creative Compilation Compiler aka 3axel
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    Yebin Mok is also using Bolero

    According to the USFSA site, Yebin Mok who is trying for a comeback this year(health permitting) is also using Bolero, but her's will be in her SP.

    3axel

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleflutz
    According to the USFSA site, Yebin Mok who is trying for a comeback this year(health permitting) is also using Bolero, but her's will be in her SP.

    3axel
    From the earlier posts, I thought Michelle was also using Bolero for her SP. Did I misunderstand?

    BTW I may be one of the few that think that Michelle could actually skate a great LP to Bolero.

    Vash

  12. #117
    TriGirl Rinkside
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    Not all that familiar w/ Bolero, but if there is somewhat hypnotic with an underlying sexiness, I think MK could do it. TFB and Fallin' make me think she could do sultry well. If she is doing Bolero, I'd love for Dean to be the choreographer. I loved Rush and would like to see them work together again - especially if he is passing that piece down to her.

  13. #118
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    Actually I prefer that Dean NOT do the choreography. We don't need a singles version of T&D's Bolero. We need an original interpretation by Michelle, so I would prefer another choreographer. Of course Dean can bring out the strengths of the skater but it will be hard for him to completely let go of one of the most famous skates of all times. I would prefer a 'fresh eye' and a fresh ear. JMHO.

    Vash

  14. #119
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz
    All these young girls are... too involved with technique to skate in a sexy manner...
    That’s a great observation, Joe. If you’re setting up for a triple Lutz, trying your darnedest to stay on the correct edge, you can’t really be bothered with trying to bat your eyes at the audience at the same time.

    (Exception: Kristi Yamaguchi, the all-time master of the “less-is-more” school of sexiness.)
    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck
    OTOH a razor sharp (kill the tempo with speed) bloodless interpretation by e.g Toscanini is not good for ahem .....
    I quite agree, RT. Some of these interpretations are almost tinny.
    Nathan Milstein thought this is one of the most depressing piece of music, I don't think he had sex in mind.
    I don’t know what Milstein had in mind, but there is a depressing aspect to this tune. It (like life) starts out so hopefully, like, hey, maybe this is going to work out OK after all. But then, nah, you fall into a rut, and after a few more meaningless repetitions you die. (Wait -- that is sort of like sex, LOL.)
    MK is kind of sexy without trying, I agree with some posters that she has not tried to be sexy with her prior programs. But IMHO there is more ways to interpret Bolero than the Dudley, Bo interpretation.
    I think what is “sexy without trying” about Michelle comes out in a performance like 2003 Aranjuez. This is an amazing piece of athletic virtuosity. She is flying along, happy as clam, leaping joyously into the air, kicking up her heels, all the while calling to the audience, hey everybody check this out! Youth, strength, confidence, joie de vie -- now that's sexy!

    Vash -- Interesting point about the fresh ear. Now I really can't wait to see what happens!

    Mathman

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