Help with the small CoP question.
The Nebelhnorn Mens Results are in and the top three finishers are: (This is not a Spoiler. We will never see this on TV.)
Craig - Canada - 63.46 Total Score
Lezin - (Russia) - 60.59
Delmore - (USA) - 60.51
My question is Is this a close race? Also, Is Lezin near Craig? Is Delmore near Lezin? Will these total scores be useful for us fans to ponder over and get something out of the athletes as well as the judging?
Interesting question that I sure can't answer, even though I'm a huge supporter of the COP concept. Just to clarify, this is just the SP results, right?
I suspect this will be a critical evolutionary season for the COP system with Oly's right around the corner in 2006. I hope the officials are able to refine the system to reward the right things in what is (and probably always will be) a highly subjective sport. I will be interested in more detailed analysis! Hard to believe the GP is already underway. This year has sure flown by.
It would take a better statistician than I to determine if Craig's scores are statistically significant over Lezin and Delmore, but if any counting judge had given Delmore a single GOE of 1 higher, or if the counting judges combined had given Delmore a total of .5 higher on a Component score, he would be slightly ahead of Lezin. Truly splitting hairs.
Originally Posted by Joesitz
On the whole, the difference between Craig and Lezin/Delmore could be:
-3 vs. base score on a triple or quad
-1 vs. +2 on a triple or quad
Two level 1 spins vs. two level 2 spins with an extra point GOE higher on the harder spins
2T vs. 3T as the second jump in the combination with the same GOE
Slighly worse 4S/3T than 3F/3T
An average of .6 better for each component score (6.1 vs. 5.5).
A large number of very small differences in scoring. The details aren't up, so it's hard to know.
These total points, Hockeyfan, will be battered about unless we can get a grip on them. Can you imagine the pages and pages of comments that so an so was just lucky by beating what's her name by only 1.6 points, and that one judge caused it.
We all know that perfect scores (6.0) were the highest a skater could get and we glorified the skater, but we gave a lot of respect to 5.9. I was just wondering what would be a significant score under CoP to equate a stupendous skate. I was thinking of Sasha at several of her skates in GP last year received scores of 170 plus. (Much more than any of her competitors.) Could we apply a minimum benchmark of 170 to achieve a really special skate, so we can say that the skater was really special that night. Or will we be looking at scores this season reaching 200 or more?
Of course, it is irrelevant to the winner of a competition what the final scores are, but fans do like to glorify a skater for a special achievement.
BTW, Hi doggygirl and welcome back. I think it was the final result. Go to 2004-2005 Events. I think the final results are in on the Mens but not the Ladies.
Last edited by Joesitz; 09-03-2004 at 08:26 PM.
Joe, Sasha got 197's as a total score last year as I just looked it up. Plushy got in the 230 range for the men. The scores for men and women are going to be different and so they'll be different ranges to look at.
You have to look at the SP and LP scores to tell what kind of skate they had as the totals can be deceiving. Sasha's highest LP was a 130 at SA and a 71 SP at SC. Those will probably be the benchmarks for next year to begin with.
Because the Men have higher tech value and their Component Scores are factored by 2 in the LP (1.6 for Ladies'), there were 13 total competition scores of over 200, the top being 234.29:
Originally Posted by Joesitz
Plushenko (4x), Sandu (1x), Buttle (2x), Honda (1x), C. Li (1x), Dambier (1x), Goebel (2x), Weiss (1x).
A top skate in the LP for Men garnered:
150+: Plushenko (3x, high of 158.94), Sandhu (1x)
140-149: Plushenko (1x), Buttle (1x), C. Li (1x)
130-139: Honda (2x), Goebel (2x), van der Perren (2x), Weiss (2x), Joubert (2x), Dambier (1x), Buttle (1x)
A top skate in the SP for Men garnered:
80+: Plushenko (2x, high of 81.25)
75-79: Plushenko (2x), Honda (1x), Sandhu (1x)
That seems to be the cut-off of high difficulty and a clean program
70-74: Gao (1x), Weiss (2x), Goebel (1x), Takahashi (1x), Sandhu (1x), Buttle (1x), Abt (1x).
Among Ladies, Cohen got 3 total scores between 197.19 and 197.6. The next highest score was Arakawa's 182.19. This year I'd expect to see total scores of over 200 for Ladies, particularly if the judges' keep ignoring Cohen's flutz, and she adds a 3/3; if Ando gets a reputation boost in the second score and her 3R in combo isn't downgraded to a 2R; and if Arakawa lands her 3/3's and gets credit for her presentation.
A top skate in the Ladies' LP garnered:
130+: Cohen (1x, high of 130.89)
120-129: Cohen (2x), Suguri (1x), Arakawa (1x), Kirk (1x)
110-119: Cohen (1x), Arakawa (2x)
A top skate in the Ladies' SP garnered:
70: Cohen (1x, high of 71.12)
65-69: Cohen (2x)
60-64: Suguri (2x), Cohen (1x), Arakawa (1x), Liashenko (1x)
Those should be the benchmarks for this year.
For taking the time to compile these stats from last year. I for one will be back to this thread to compare as this year unfolds. Can't wait for the season to *really* get underway!!
Yes, thanks Hockeyfan, for working that out.
If I read it correctly, the bench mark scores for showing really special achievements would be:
Men - SP: 80+ and LP: 150+
Ladies - SP: 70+ and LP: 130+
It's not exactly 6.0s but at least it gives us an idea of someone special.