Marina skated with Sergei Sakhnovsky as a junior, but he left her for another partner, with whom he won the World Junior championship. She then teamed up with Ilia Averbukh, but he wanted to skate with his love, Irina Lobacheva.
There wasn't another male partner available, so she wrote to Gwendal Peizerat and the rest is history. Sergei and Ilia left her in the lurch, but she wound up with the OGM.
Just some things I wanted to respond to that were brought up in the previous posts. Joe I can't answer those questions you brought up however! First of all Naomi, Peter and Natalia Annenko did move from Lake Placid to Detroit together. It is my understanding from those who know that while in Detroit Peter left Natalia for......Naomi. I am not sure exactly who divorced who on paper but it was reportedly Peter who ended the marriage. Not trying to be nasty or gossipy just wanting the truth to be known. Sometimes people put athletes up on pedestals however we must remember that they are all only human and sometimes not the gods and/or goddesses that fans make them out to be. Peter has his good points and not so good points I believe, just like everyone else. Also I do not believe that Peter was planning to split with Naomi after this year's Nationals because he 'knew Tanith and Ben were the better team'. I believe and have heard that they were planning to train very hard to make a good showing in 2005 until the pregnancy happened. Also as far as having a child and competitive skating go; Tatiana Navka is a good example of a mother with a young child who manages both quite well. Having a baby should not necessarily signal the end of one's amateur skating career. And I really admire the Irish lady's views on citizenship; ideally I feel that is how it should be, an identity. As far as Peter and Shae-Lynn skating as pros go as I said before, I wouldn't have a problem with that, it would be an interesting match. But amateur, no I don't think so, I don't think it's right. I have a problem with those who want an Olympic medal AT ANY COST!
Didn't Marina also write to Victor Kraatz?Originally Posted by euterpe
I find this thread fascinating. I've learned a lot about the USSR and Russia and the exodus of so many skaters. It's refreshing to get away from Sasha's flexibility and Michelle's aging.
As I've said many times by now. I am not against Peter taking on another citizenship. I understand how he feels about getting an Oly medal. I just added that it means more than his citizenship. JMO. In that respect I questioned, because I do not know Peter, will he be happy as a Canadian citizen after the Olympics. Maybe Peter can not answer that question right now.
I am against Peter getting Canadian citizenship bypassing the normal procedures. Figure Skating is not the most important thing in the world, and Canada can stand on it's own native born skaters to bring home the medals. They've proven that many times.
No one really knows what Naomi feels. Suddenly posters are saying that she won't leave her baby for skating. Do they really think that is true without her saying something about it?
And yes, I believe Naomi is the better skater of the two. I have my opinions as do other people. Everyone is entitled to his opinion of someone's skating. It has nothing to do with judges scores. My problem with most posters and their loves, is that they are basically ethnic based, provided, of course, that the skaters are top tier. JMO.
Shae Lin, in my opinion is a very special great skater and Peter is fine if not great. They should make a good team in show biz, but as competitives, that remains to be seen. Let's see.
Joe
My view on that is the same as on Tanith's American citizenship -- I think it's OK to make the process as fast as possible without making any explicit exceptions. For example, I have no problem with the INS making up for whatever error they originally made with Tanith's Green Card (which they would NEVER do in an ordinary case), but I would surely have a problem with the President or Congress granting her the US papers.
Who said that? What I said was, "Would Naomi leave her baby in the care of others while she trains and practices? I don't know Naomi so I can't really answer that, but she has always impressed me as someone who holds family as important to her. I would be a little surprised if she abdicated this responsibility to someone else."
Not the same thing.
I'm not sure I understand this, either:
"My problem with most posters and their loves, is that they are basically ethnic based, provided, of course, that the skaters are top tier."
Can you explain it, please?
Nan
To be fair I appreciate that my views are probably a little unaccomadating but they have developed from years of people telling me how proud they are of the fact that they are Irish or of Irish heritage yet have never set foot in the country or know a single thing about it.
Ptichka, I think I may have some across as a bit rigid in my views of what I think people should have to know about the country. I myself have very little interest in politics and I know the basics. I do however have a deep love of the language and the history of the country and that's my strong point. People don't have to know everything about everything and as Nan so rightly said sometimes life just gets in the way - like it did for me. I would have loved to have stayed in Ireland to study but it just wasn't possible. That's life!
As Joe said my main problem is that the rules of citizenship would be bypassed for some (mainly athletes) and not for others and along the way it is your own homegrown athletes that suffer the consequences. How many times I have heard team coaches saying things like well we have a wealth of young talent but none of them have the experience at this level. How exactly do they expect them to gain that experience I wonder?
I agree with your point about USSR to Russia and for this reason I have always viewed the former USSR and the countries that made it up as a slightly different kettle of fish because somewhere along the line most of these people considered themselves Soviet and if Soviet means Russian to some even though they are in Belarus then so be it - you can't take away a persons identity by moving borders. Much the same situation in Northern Ireland where a good number of people consider themselves British, a good number consider themselves Irish and some have developed a new Northern Irish identity over the years.
Last edited by diver chick; 09-14-2004 at 07:12 AM.
Nan - it seemed to me from the thread that an explanation of Naomi's role in the split was all her doing and there was nothing substantial about it, except what their agent had said. It just seemed to me that whatever Peter wants to do it is ok because it was Naomi who brought about the split. I really do not have much interest in skate dancing. It is clear to me what Peter's goals are and I have no objection to those goals. It is the question of citizenship which I find uncertain, and I will not relinquish my feelings about making exceptions for any person involved in ANY sports.
Yes, I was a bit rash in writing about ethnicity and using the term "most" but I am American and while growing up I was constantly confronted with what my nationality was. Since I was a "mutt", I found it very difficult to say what my hyphenated American ancestry was. Today, it still seems to me that people tend to be proud when someone of the same background is in competition. Nothing wrong with that! It makes sense in the gut feeling. But, that is how I view the world and I do make allowances for it. Sorry, if it miffed you. It was not meant to offend.
Joe
To answwer your question, Lynn226, "Didn't Marina also write to Victor Kraatz?"
Yes, Marina wrote to Victor Kraatz. According to one interview I watched, she said she wrote to Victor before she contacted Gwendal. Victor apparently, did not respond to her inquiry.
RE: Marina and Victor - The story I've always heard was that Marina wrote to both Gwendal and Victor. The letter to Victor somehow got lost in transit, the letter to Gwendal got to its destination and they paired up. The Fates at work?
RE: Peter's citizenship - I feel sure that he was happy and proud to receive American citizenship, and sad at the same time to give up citizenship in the country where he was born and where his family still live. At the same time, I seem to remember an interview where he said something to the effect that he felt like a "citizen of the world" since skating takes him to so many different countries, and since the skating community is so international.
As regards changing citizenship to pursue the goal of an Olympic medal, it seems to me that he has worked hard all his life to compete. The fact that he is still competitive at his age is testimony to how hard he works. But time is running out on his competitive career, and no matter how hard he works, he can't slow time! I think Naomi's heart has not been in competing for a while now. If she had truly wanted to compete last year, she would have had the ankle problem taken care of after the COI tour, and gotten back out on the ice to get ready for the GP series. Given the fact that Peter wants to compete as long as he can, is it really fair to expect him to wait for Naomi to have her baby and get back into training? I love Naomi, and I've always thought that her style and balletic lines suit his style perfectly, but she doesn't have his competitve drive.
RE: Joesitz' comment about Naomi's "tribal family" taking care of the baby while she skates, I am finally speechless! She doesn't live on the Rez, you know...
Last edited by terisalyn; 09-14-2004 at 09:17 AM. Reason: correct typo
Very Off Topic:
I think the beauty of FS forums is that most of the people on them, are from all different backgrounds and colors, but we can openly speak to or be with each other as one. So to say..
I hope that made sense... :o
Denise... :D
Don't be speechless, please. You're on Golden Skate.
Naomi may not live in the "Rez" as you call it but she is highly touted by the Native American population. The original remark implied that she did not have resources for dealing with raising the baby and yes, coninuing her love (like Peter) for skating. I just don't buy that. I don't know what the position of Naomi is right now on continuing skating. Snippets from old remarks and press agents, for what they are worth, may not have told the whole story. Certainly she can not skate with Peter anymore. But there is no necessity to put the whole brunt of the split between them on her doorstep.
Joe
Last edited by Joesitz; 09-14-2004 at 10:29 AM.
LOL, don't worry, I don't think I've ever REALLY been speechless in my life.
I don't think the original remark implied that she didn't have the resources to leave the baby and travel to compete. I find it hard to imagine that she, as a new mother, would WANT someone else to care for her new daughter while she trains and competes. (I wouldn't want to leave her to go to the next room!) It's not just traveling to competitions, there are lots of training hours involved. Not to mention the need for good sleep during training - something which is usually in short supply around an infant :D Add to that the fact that Naomi's enthusiasm for competition doesn't seem to be there anymore, as per several direct quotes from interviews, and I can't blame Peter for wanting to try a last run at the OGM with another partner.
OF COURSE, no-one knows what's going through any of the skaters' minds - that should be a standard generic disclaimer on any fan message board. :sheesh:
Joe,
You have neither "miffed" nor "offended" me. I just didn't understand the comment and asked for an explanation. I don't mean to belabor the point, but I think one of us is completely misunderstanding what the other (or *others*) is saying.
I don't see anyone here assigning "fault" for Peter and Naomi breaking up, only exchanging information concerning statements that have been published by their mutual agent or broadcast on television. We have no idea if this gives us an accurate picture of the whole story. What we do know is that Naomi is on record as saying she had gotten "burned out" and was "discouraged" with competition and needed a "break," but I don't think anyone here is crediting her alone with the decision to split. Since the official announcement came from their mutual agent, it would appear to me that it was a mutual decision. Peter didn't say, "I'm leaving her," and Naomi didn't say, "I'm leaving him." If their agent doesn't have the authority to speak for them, who does other than each one making individual announcements?
I also don't see where anyone has even hinted that Naomi doesn't have the "resources" for dealing with a baby and skating at the same time. I think I might have been just about the only one to comment on this, and again, what I said was, "Would Naomi leave her baby in the care of others while she trains and practices? I don't know Naomi so I can't really answer that, but she has always impressed me as someone who holds family as important to her. I would be a little surprised if she abdicated this responsibility to someone else." Not a word about resources. You said, “Naomi leaving her baby alone to skate. That sort of thing was the way we were Nowadays, Nanis and baby sitters as well Au Peres are quite plentiful and certaintly Naomi's tribal family would see to it that the baby was well taken cared for" and "Suddenly posters are saying that she won't leave her baby for skating."
Thank you for your explanation about your "ethnicity" comment. It seemed to me that you might have been saying that those people who were "sticking up" for Peter were doing so because they shared an ethnic background with him. While I know some who do this, support an individual not for who they are or what they do but because of where they come from, please rest assured that this is not the case with me. I love and support the skaters who I think are talented and who touch me on an emotional level. It might not be the proper criteria, but it's mine and has nothing to do with where the skater came from or what their ethnicity is.
Perhaps living several different places growing up has made me a little less sensitive to where I live as opposed to who I live with. I do agree with what appears to be the majority here that rules should not be broken or circumvented for athletes or "special" people. I have no problem with speeding up a process, as long as it's legal and the same criteria is used for all.
In an ideal world, we would never be having this discussion and Peter and Naomi would still be skating together. I loved watching the two of them and wish things had turned out differently, but for whatever reason, it didn't. I don't know that Naomi wants, I haven't seen anything from her concerning her future plans, but I do know that Peter wants to continue skating so I give him what support in this decision as I can and hope for the best for him.
Nan
Last edited by NansXOXOX; 09-14-2004 at 12:08 PM.
Nan - We are not so far apart. I did feel, however, that the comments about Naomi were more pooh pooh, than needed to be because Peter is what we care about. I think I became sad about their breakup. And I still think there is more to be said about the split but we will probably never know much more.
Oh yes, I wrote that the original remark IMPLIED that she did not have resources. I did not quote 'resources' as anyone's word but my own. A bit strong perhaps, but, again the comments by others seemed to think she SHOULD stay with the baby. I keep thinking of all those show biz and athletes with families who travel world wide and do not have a problem with taking their kids with them or finding someone reliable to watch them. Just my thoughts and my caring for Naomi as well as Peter in the split.
Joe
Last edited by Joesitz; 09-14-2004 at 06:48 PM.
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