Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Backloading my program.

  1. #1
    Spectator
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    31

    0 Not allowed!

    Backloading my program.


    Go Ad-Free! Become a GS Supporter! Thank you
    Hi guys! I am currently developing my program and I need an opinion on backloading jumps for bonus points. Do you find that backloading causes uneveness in the program? Will it severely impact my PCS? Looking at the current trend, Medvedeva received a row of 10s for composition and most of her jumps are in the second half of her programs. Do you think it would be wise for me to do my spins and step sequence in the first half to stall time before doing my jumps in the second half? I have good endurance so jumping in the second half isn't really a problem for me. My worry is that my PCS will take a huge hit. Perhaps my biggest weakness is a lack of consistency on the loop. It seems ISU awards high PCS just for consistency. My goal is to medal once in competition and a TES boost would be very helpful. If my PCS won't suffer too much for skating around for the first half of my program I think that would be very strategic. What is your take on this topic? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Because backflips are sexy.... Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,583
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by NymphyNymphy View Post
    Hi guys! I am currently developing my program and I need an opinion on backloading jumps for bonus points. Do you find that backloading causes uneveness in the program? Will it severely impact my PCS? Looking at the current trend, Medvedeva received a row of 10s for composition and most of her jumps are in the second half of her programs. Do you think it would be wise for me to do my spins and step sequence in the first half to stall time before doing my jumps in the second half? I have good endurance so jumping in the second half isn't really a problem for me. My worry is that my PCS will take a huge hit. Perhaps my biggest weakness is a lack of consistency on the loop. It seems ISU awards high PCS just for consistency. My goal is to medal once in competition and a TES boost would be very helpful. If my PCS won't suffer too much for skating around for the first half of my program I think that would be very strategic. What is your take on this topic? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    Uh...first of all what level are you and what's your endurance like?? Why isn't this being planned with your coaching staff and choreographer and so on?!??

  3. #3
    Medalist Weathergal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,049
    Country: United States of America

    7 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    Uh...first of all what level are you and what's your endurance like?? Why isn't this being planned with your coaching staff and choreographer and so on?!??
    Perhaps because this is yet another thread where this poster "asks for advice" about his / her own skating then spins it (no pun intended) into a way to throw shade at Medvedeva. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but many comments don't add up. We all have different opinions and tastes on this board, but let's be straightforward.

  4. #4
    Spectator
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    31

    0 Not allowed!
    Hi Ic3! I started skating a few years ago and I am only on my doubles for the lutz and salchow. Maybe that is why landing the jumps aren't too difficult in the second half as I am only on my doubles. Unfortunately I am not well off and can only afford one coach for now. My goal is to enter competitions so I like incorporating jumps into a program. I was just curious as to how a program should be planned out. Sorry if that was confusing.

  5. #5
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    116

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by NymphyNymphy View Post
    Hi guys! I am currently developing my program and I need an opinion on backloading jumps for bonus points. Do you find that backloading causes uneveness in the program? Will it severely impact my PCS? Looking at the current trend, Medvedeva received a row of 10s for composition and most of her jumps are in the second half of her programs. Do you think it would be wise for me to do my spins and step sequence in the first half to stall time before doing my jumps in the second half? I have good endurance so jumping in the second half isn't really a problem for me. My worry is that my PCS will take a huge hit. Perhaps my biggest weakness is a lack of consistency on the loop. It seems ISU awards high PCS just for consistency. My goal is to medal once in competition and a TES boost would be very helpful. If my PCS won't suffer too much for skating around for the first half of my program I think that would be very strategic. What is your take on this topic? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    ask ur coach, they know better than anons on gs.

  6. #6
    Spectator
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    31

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Weathergal View Post
    Perhaps because this is yet another thread where this poster "asks for advice" about his / her own skating then spins it (no pun intended) into a way to throw shade at Medvedeva. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but many comments don't add up. We all have different opinions and tastes on this board, but let's be straightforward.
    It was not my intention to shade Medvedeva. She is a wonderful skater. I was just asking about backloading to get a feel of how judging works at a senior level. If backloading can garner a better score I would like to get use to backloading. It seems like a good strategy. Although my hopes of getting into the senior ranks are slim maybe I can still compete in the Adults competition.

  7. #7
    Because backflips are sexy.... Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,583
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by NymphyNymphy View Post
    Hi Ic3! I started skating a few years ago and I am only on my doubles for the lutz and salchow. Maybe that is why landing the jumps aren't too difficult in the second half as I am only on my doubles. Unfortunately I am not well off and can only afford one coach for now. My goal is to enter competitions so I like incorporating jumps into a program. I was just curious as to how a program should be planned out. Sorry if that was confusing.
    Your coach should know. Ask them. Also, if you've only been skating for a few years being successful in the Senior ranks is going to be sadly probably unattainable for you, so perhaps shoot for the adult competitions.

    I know how to do it, but all of this is personal to each skater.

    Good luck! Also, this should be in the lutz forum.

  8. #8
    Bona Fide Member Sam-Skwantch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    11,900
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!
    Are we talking about competing in front of IJS judges or club judges?

    My second question is do club judges even give a second half bonus? I don't think they do at my local competitions. Maybe I'm mistaken here.

  9. #9
    Hitting the "you're too sexy" button
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    11,807
    Country: Australia

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Are we talking about competing in front of IJS judges or club judges?

    My second question is do club judges even give a second half bonus? I don't think they do at my local competitions. Maybe I'm mistaken here.
    Um, club judges are IJS judges? The IJS is used at club comps too. And yes, it's set up for second half bonus.

    And the OP absolutely needs to be talking to her coach about this. It's not simply a case of saying "oh I'll throw all my jumps in the second half". There are so many other factors to be considered and it's not something you should just throw in the deep end.

    As for "it's easier to do jumps in the second half when you're only doing doubles", I'm sorry, that's balderdash. When your legs are burning, even singles are a challenge.

  10. #10
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    5,557

    1 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam-Skwantch View Post
    Are we talking about competing in front of IJS judges or club judges?

    My second question is do club judges even give a second half bonus? I don't think they do at my local competitions. Maybe I'm mistaken here.
    I don't know where NymphyNymphy is located, so I can't answer for how their local competitions are run.

    karne is in Australia, where I understand that they use a version of IJS at all levels.

    I see from the flag under your name that you're in the US. So am I, so I'll answer how things are done in the US:

    Club competitions use IJS for juvenile through senior level and for adult gold and adult masters levels, same as at the US qualifying competitions.

    Adult Silver is now using IJS at the adult championship level, so some club competitions also offer IJS for this level.

    Some club competitions offer IJS for pre-juvenile.

    A few in the west offer a version of IJS all the way down to the lowest levels. I don't know the details. But some adaptation will probably be put in place across the US in the not-too-distant future. (I'm just sorry I wasn't able to compete under an appropriate version of IJS while I was still able to skate freestyle programs at the adult bronze level or "skate up" to silver.)

    So if by your local competitions you mean learn-to-skate or adult silver or bronze or pre-bronze, or standard pre-juvenile, preliminary, pre-preliminary, or no-test levels, or test track events at any level, then the answer is no they do not currently use IJS in most parts of the US. But a skater who can do double lutz would almost certainly be competing at higher levels that do use IJS. If they can do anything harder than double lutz, they would have to.

    Judges don't award the second half bonus. That's a function of the technical panel and the referee.

  11. #11
    Bona Fide Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    9,583
    Country: Canada

    2 Not allowed!
    How long is your program? I haven't competed in well over a decade, but I know Canadian adult competitions, for example, use IJS but I don't think the programs are long enough to allow for second half bonuses.

    And to be honest second half bonus is rather negligible if you're doing all doubles (axel excluded). Say you did a layout of 2Z, 2Z+2T, 2L+1/2L+2S, 2F+2T, 2F, 1A, 1A all in the second half, it really only gets you about 1.5-2 points extra.

    If you wanna win a competition where everyone's only doing doubles, the key is to develop your spins and footwork to level 4s with good GOE.

  12. #12
    Bona Fide Member chapis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,509
    Country: Mexico

    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by NymphyNymphy View Post
    Perhaps my biggest weakness is a lack of consistency on the loop. It seems ISU awards high PCS just for consistency. My goal is to medal once in competition and a TES boost would be very helpful. If my PCS won't suffer too much for skating around for the first half of my program I think that would be very strategic. What is your take on this topic? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    . Yes, if you want points, do it!!

  13. #13
    Rinkside
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    13

    0 Not allowed!
    Honestly, your coach should be helping you with this info. There is also a lot of info on the USFSA website and rulebook.

    But CSG is right, if you're only doing doubles the points will be in your spins and footwork. One good spin can be worth multiple double jumps. But TALK TO YOUR COACH.

  14. #14
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    33,944

    2 Not allowed!
    I don't skate myself, but here's my advice. Find some music that you can really get into. Then put the jumps at the highlights of the music.

  15. #15
    On the Ice
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    224
    Country: United States of America

    0 Not allowed!

    Go Ad-Free! Become a GS Supporter! Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by NymphyNymphy View Post
    Hi Ic3! I started skating a few years ago and I am only on my doubles for the lutz and salchow. Maybe that is why landing the jumps aren't too difficult in the second half as I am only on my doubles. Unfortunately I am not well off and can only afford one coach for now. My goal is to enter competitions so I like incorporating jumps into a program. I was just curious as to how a program should be planned out. Sorry if that was confusing.
    Ok, there's a lot to unpack here. If you only have your double sal and double lutz, it is hard to put together a program to maximize your points in jumps in the first place. For one thing, in US adult competitions, you cannot do a double lutz at all until you reach the level Masters Junior-Senior, and you wouldn't be competitive at this level with just a 2s and 2lz, because you'd have no 2-2 combos and you can't repeat your jumps more than once. If you did a lower level, that would leave you with just a double sal. Doing axel, 2s, and the rest singles is fairly competitive at the adult Gold level. At that level you are allowed to only do singles, 2s, and 2t, and no double-doubles allowed. You could certainly backload as much as you can for the bonus, but then also you must keep in mind that the program is only 2:40 long and you have 5 jump elements with combos to do during that time, and most skaters at this level don't get most of their points from jumps, but rather spins, footwork, and PCS.

    Next, I have to ask if you've taken all of your moves and freestyle tests to be eligible to even do Adult Gold. I am assuming not, because you're asking about putting together programs, which you would have had to do to pass Bronze, Silver, and Gold freestyle. If you have not, you can start competing at Adult Pre-Bronze non-qualifying at adult sectionals, which only requires singles, just to get your feet wet. This is judged 6.0 like most posters have said, and doesn't matter where you put your jumps. I am also going out on the limb and asking if you are a man (because it seems you haven't done any programs yet are able to do a 2lz) - as an added encouragement, if you are a man it will be a lot easier to accomplish your goal to medal at a competition.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •