# Thread: Is a toe-wally different from a toe-loop in the ...more...

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## Is a toe-wally different from a toe-loop in the ...more...

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same way that a flip is different from a Lutz (just a different edge on the take-off of the foot that is not doing the picking?) If so, why isn't it ever used or noted as a separate jump? thanks

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They're the same but the entrance is different.Toe Wally you start by going into it with a forward outside three turn and then put your toe in and toe loop you go into it with a right inside three turn, then put your toe in.

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## Toe-Walley v. Toe Loop

If you're a "normal direction" skater, the toe loop is off the RBO edge and the toe walley is off the RBI edge. (Obviously it's the Left foot if you skate the "other direction".) You can use several ways to get to that edge... inside or outside three-turn, mohawk or out of some other piece of footwork.

The reason there isn't a separate "category" for toe walley is at the single-rotation level, they are perceived to be the same difficulty... although most people will tell they aren't. And most toe walley-attempts end up being not-quite-right toe loops.

And I've never seen anyone attempt a double toe-walley -- so I'm guessing that would be even more difficult than a double toe loop.

Obviously the toe walley is to the toe loop what the walley is to the loop. And if you think about it, you see very few skaters putting walleys in their programs. (Again, if you're a "normal direction" skater a walley is off the RBI edge -- with no toe assist.) Although there is one skater at one of our local rinks who puts walley/walley in her (I think it's Intermediate) program. As you can imagine, the set up takes a little longer than the loop/loop combination since she has to transfer her weight from the outside landing edge over to the inside take-off edge for the second jump. But it looks VERY cool!

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Technically, a toe walley is exactly what Thin-Ice said. Since that is so difficult, though, and since very few people do toe-walleys, the term has come to mean a toe loop that is entered through a mohawk, back push instead of a three turn. IE, if you skate right-handed (the more common way), to do a "toe-walley" you would do a RFI to LBI mohawk, then RBO, and stretch your left foot back to take-off.

Normal walleys, actually, though, aren't all that uncommon. Maybe its a regional thing, but pretty much every girl at my rink at one time did a walley-walley doubletoe for their jump sequence (I think its the junior test....). Eventually, everyone's spun off in different directions, walley-walley double-toe double-loop, I did a walley-walley double-flip double-loop....Either way, its actually probably one of the easier sequences you can do.

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Originally Posted by Perry
"toe-walley" you would do a RFI to LBI mohawk, then RBO, and stretch your left foot back to take-off.
The RBO is what makes that jump a toe loop and not a walley. I believe that the are not considered separate elements because as skater progress into more revolutions, the entrance to the toe loop changes from the single 3 (ie Witt) into the 3 with the back outside edge (ie Stojko). With the identical entrance, at that point, as the toe walley with exception to the take off edge, during the course of a program it would be too much of a challenge for a judge to deciper the entrance edge during a competition. (JMO) I think that is why they are not considered two separate elements.
The flip and lutz have distiguishable differences in the take off entrances, where the toe walley and toe loop do not.

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## Regional Toe Walleys

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"Since very few people do toe-walleys, the term has come to mean a toe loop that is entered through a mohawk, back push instead of a three turn. IE, if you skate right-handed (the more common way), to do a "toe-walley" you would do a RFI to LBI mohawk, then RBO, and stretch your left foot back to take-off".

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I guess toe-walley definitions are pretty regional too. I skate in California.. and I've seen judges give extra credit for a real toe-walley (in combination) on tests. One judge even put in remarks, something like "nice to see someone trying to be original using a toe-walley with the toe loop". The other version you describe they just note as a toe loop/toe loop on test sheets. Of course when you combine the two in combination it IS easier to see the difference in take-off edge.

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