Who is likely to win pairs Silver in Torino? | Golden Skate

Who is likely to win pairs Silver in Torino?

Who is likely to win pairs silver in 2006 Olympics?

  • Totmianina-Marinin

    Votes: 29 47.5%
  • Pang & Tong

    Votes: 13 21.3%
  • Zhang & Zhang

    Votes: 4 6.6%
  • Langlois-Archetto

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Zagorska-Siudek

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Obertas-Slavnov

    Votes: 4 6.6%
  • Petrova-Tikhanov

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Inoue-Baldwin

    Votes: 3 4.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 8.2%

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Assuming S&Z are a lock for the 2006 Olympic gold, who is likely to win the pairs silver?
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Well, this years Worlds proved S&Z aren't unquestioned favorites for Olympic Gold. However, I do hope they win. IMHO, they are by far and away the best team on the ice right now. I'd say T&M will still be their biggest challengers by 2006. The other two Chinese teams should also be threats.
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
What a weird poll. How can you assume S/Z are a lock for gold? :confused: They just won silver this past season.

IMO S/Z and T/M are co-favorites to win the gold in 2006 and if nothing too strange happens in the meanwhile (and in Turin), gold and silver will be for them.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
RIskatingfan said:
What a weird poll. How can you assume S/Z are a lock for gold? :confused: They just won silver this past season.

IMO S/Z and T/M are co-favorites to win the gold in 2006 and if nothing too strange happens in the meanwhile (and in Turin), gold and silver will be for them.

I don't think this is a weird poll at all. Had I included S&Z on the list and asked who would win gold in 2006, EVERYONE would have picked S&Z and that would have been a meaningless poll. In its current form there is a spread over 4 pairs (not equal, obviously) but it tells us which pair is PERCEIVED to be the biggest challenger to S&Z.

Vash
 

Germanice

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Right, last season Xue and Hongbo "only" won Silver, but just because the way HOW!!! they won it :love: I cannot think of any other pair being on that Gold spot in Turino. But of course, everything is possible! - As for Silver, I've voted for Pang & Tong.

Anke
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I don't think it is a question of who will win gold or silver. IMO, S&Z are locked in for gold unless they have an inadvertent accident as what happened in Dortmund. They have no co-favorites, imo. Sometime the gods give another team a bit of luck that has nothing to do with true skating.

We should all know by now that gold doesn't mean best.

I don't think any team is locked in for the silver.

Joe
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Joesitz said:
S&Z are locked in for gold unless they have an inadvertent accident as what happened in Dortmund
An inadvertent accident in Dortmund? What happened in Dortmund that can be called an accident? I remember that Zhao fell on the SBS triple toes on the SP, but surely you can't be referring to this, since falls are not "accidents", they're part of the sport and the competition and they're what skaters train to avoid at competitions by training and practicing hard every day. Falls aren't accidents, they're mistakes. And mistakes are penalized.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Joesitz said:
I don't think it is a question of who will win gold or silver. IMO, S&Z are locked in for gold unless they have an inadvertent accident as what happened in Dortmund. They have no co-favorites, imo. Sometime the gods give another team a bit of luck that has nothing to do with true skating.

We should all know by now that gold doesn't mean best.

I don't think any team is locked in for the silver.

Joe

It was not an accident; it was a major mistake in the SP by S&Z. T&M skated both SP and LP well and they deserved to win the gold in 2004. Certainly S&Z's fall helped them win but that does not mean it has nothing to do with true skating. It has everything to do with how the two pairs skated.

In Dortmund, T&M's gold medal meant that they were the best pair in that competition.

Vash
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Sorry about the use of the word 'accident'.

I presume we expect major mistakes to happen all the time for S&Z or we hope so, and other teams will not make them. :rolleye: so no one is locked in. The point really is if S&Z do not make major mistakes they are still not locked in . Would we say the same thing about Plushy if he does not make a major mistake?

Maybe the term 'lock' should never have been introduced as it was in the first post, or ever used in discussion, for that matter. It's a slippery sport. :cry:

Joe
 

diver chick

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'lock' for a medal.

Granted at the moment S&Z are probably the favourites - if....
....they can get this quad throw of theirs under control without affecting the quality of the rest of the performances
.....they don't get injured in training between now and then
....p&t or t&m or any one of a number of other pairs teams don't make a huge leap or improvement over the next couple of seasons - and for the russians it probably won't require much of an improvement.
....they don't come up with disastrous programs like FP&M in SLC granted that is less likely to happen in pairs because of the clear technical element.
....they perform to their ability during both SP and FP in Turino.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
diver chick said:
In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'lock' for a medal.
True, but...
....they can get this quad throw of theirs under control without affecting the quality of the rest of the performances
IMHO they don't need the quad to win.
.....they don't get injured in training between now and then
naturally
....p&t or t&m or any one of a number of other pairs teams don't make a huge leap or improvement over the next couple of seasons - and for the russians it probably won't require much of an improvement.
I just don't see P&T (either one of them) or T&M making that kind of a leap. And I don't hink O&S will be there yet.
....they don't come up with disastrous programs like FP&M in SLC granted that is less likely to happen in pairs because of the clear technical element.
I don't see them doing that. One thing I like about S&Z is that they stay fairly humble relative to their success (may be it's a culture thing, I don't know). FP&M got too cocky thinking it was a good program; TT told them it wasn't a good idea, but they just wouldn't listen. Besides, I consider FP&M's World Gold a fluke; their placement in SLC was at least not higher than their skills. S&Z are a different story.
....they perform to their ability during both SP and FP in Turino
Naturally.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Vash01 said:
I don't think this is a weird poll at all. Had I included S&Z on the list and asked who would win gold in 2006, EVERYONE would have picked S&Z and that would have been a meaningless poll. In its current form there is a spread over 4 pairs (not equal, obviously) but it tells us which pair is PERCEIVED to be the biggest challenger to S&Z.

Vash

For those objecting to the word 'lock' please reread the above post. It is an ASSUMPTION (not a PREDICTION) made to get some kind of balance in this poll. Sure S&Z are HUGE favorites to win, but the gap between them and T&M -all things considered- is not as wide as majority of fans tend to believe. T&M are still improving, and so are Pang & Tong and Z&Z who IMO have a bright future). T&M have better basic stroking skills, extensions, and S&Z's spins and unison are still weak, and they have never had great posture, so S&Z are really not perfect. However, S&Z will be given the benefit of doubt if all skate clean, or if S&Z have a relatively minor mistake. On the poll they would have received close to 100% of the votes, that is why I had to keep them out of the poll (I did not want to post something like "if they did not skate"). The purpose of this poll is different.

Vash
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Gotcha. You're right, they're very popular among the fans and they would get tons of votes. And ITA with you on your analysis.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Vash01 said:
For those objecting to the word 'lock' please reread the above post. It is an ASSUMPTION (not a PREDICTION) made to get some kind of balance in this poll. Sure S&Z are HUGE favorites to win, but the gap between them and T&M -all things considered- is not as wide as majority of fans tend to believe. T&M are still improving, and so are Pang & Tong and Z&Z who IMO have a bright future). T&M have better basic stroking skills, extensions, and S&Z's spins and unison are still weak, and they have never had great posture, so S&Z are really not perfect. However, S&Z will be given the benefit of doubt if all skate clean, or if S&Z have a relatively minor mistake. On the poll they would have received close to 100% of the votes, that is why I had to keep them out of the poll (I did not want to post something like "if they did not skate"). The purpose of this poll is different.

Vash

I don't agree that other Pairs team have better 'stroking skills' than S&Z, and as far as posture is concerned Shen sometimes is too upright for my taste but I'm not sure if you meant hunched over?

Is any skater or team perfect? Look at Sikilharitze (sp) when he stumbled on footwork in SLC LP. That incident I would call an accident because we are never going to see it again. Similarly with Zhao's bad take off of the 3T in the SP in Dortmund. We will never see that again. We certainly didn't see it in the LP! If we are anticipating a repeat of these errors then in some cases we are hoping for them to happen again for subjective reasons. However, I'll accepl the word mistakes in both cases as far as scoring is concerned. (The winner is the best that night.) But I would not expect either team to be classified as error prone.

I think T&M are the favorites in Moscow. The home town crowd will make it exciting, and I am sure T&M will be as 'perfect' as possible. And I would assume all other Pairs are working hard to improve.

Joe
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think CoP will make S&Z strong favorites, because a mistake in the SP can be made up in the LP in points, and even stronger favorites if the extra 10% is extended to Pairs for elements in the last minute of the LP program by 2006. S&Z would not be dependent on another team to beat T&M.
 

GoldenSwan

Spectator
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Joesitz said:
Is any skater or team perfect? Look at Sikilharitze (sp) when he stumbled on footwork in SLC LP. That incident I would call an accident because we are never going to see it again.
Joe
Sikharulidze stumbled on the double axel, not footwork.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Joesitz said:
I don't agree that other Pairs team have better 'stroking skills' than S&Z, and as far as posture is concerned Shen sometimes is too upright for my taste but I'm not sure if you meant hunched over?

Is any skater or team perfect? Look at Sikilharitze (sp) when he stumbled on footwork in SLC LP. That incident I would call an accident because we are never going to see it again. Similarly with Zhao's bad take off of the 3T in the SP in Dortmund. We will never see that again. We certainly didn't see it in the LP! If we are anticipating a repeat of these errors then in some cases we are hoping for them to happen again for subjective reasons. However, I'll accepl the word mistakes in both cases as far as scoring is concerned. (The winner is the best that night.) But I would not expect either team to be classified as error prone.

I think T&M are the favorites in Moscow. The home town crowd will make it exciting, and I am sure T&M will be as 'perfect' as possible. And I would assume all other Pairs are working hard to improve.

Joe

I just meant postures of both Shen & Zhao- they are less than perfect. Not BAD, but not great either.

Anton S. overrotated the double axel and had to step out of it. It was not an accident, but a mistake, just like Zhao's was. The difference though was that Zhao's was a fall in the SP which has .3-.4 mandatory deduction, while a step out of a jump in an LP is a minor mistake (no mandatory deductions are taken). Neither may repeat the mistake (Anton will probably not do the sbs 2A in the pros, and Zhao will be more careful), but any skater can make any mistake, including these two. Just because it is a rare occurrence does not make it an accident. Both were penalized for the mistake as they should have been.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Spinner said:
:laugh: I busted out laughing when I saw Inoue and Baldwin on your list. Are you serious?

Honestly, I don't think I&B have any chance of winning the Olympic silver, but neither do Pet-Tik, IMO. I just wanted a longer list and could not think of any other pair that time.

Who knows, I&B will make HUGE strides and prove that I was 'smart' placing them on the list.....:lol

Vash
 
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