New programs for Totmianina and Marinin

kosjenka · Sep 12, 2004

I was just looking for some informations and look what I found:
http://www.isufs.org/bios/isufs00002439.htm

Short:
Ave Maria

Free program:
Sheherazade by N. Rimski-Korsakov

Is this good choice for them?

Mathman · Sep 12, 2004

It doesn't say which Ave Maria they are using for the short. If it is Schubert, I think it's a great choice. Although the music lacks dramatic punch for throws and jumps, the flow of the music is good for showing off the clean and classic lines of this team.

Mathman

Antilles · Sep 12, 2004

I was kind of hoping they'd keep last year's Edvin Marton program, since they didn't get to skate it much. I thought it was a nice program.

Vash01 · Sep 12, 2004

I think those are good choices for them. For the last 3 seasons they have selected slow moving classical pieces for their SP's and dramatic music for the LP's, and they skate well that kind of music (including last year's LP skated to Marton). I think Ave Maria will work well for them, just like the earlier 3 SP's did. For the long, Scheherazade has potential to be good. It has more variations than the Marton number (although I LOVED that choice for them last season). Tatiana had said that they want to work on getting more emotion in their skating, and Scheherazade will provide that. I hope they will just work on musical interpretation and not try to play roles. As much as I loved the Marton number, I think it is good for them to experiment with a more dramatic music in the pre-Olympic year. If it works, they may decide to keep it in 2006, as it helps to feel comfortable with the program. If it does not work out, I don't know if they will go back to the Marton music, with some changes to the program. Either way this seems like a good move for them.

RIskatingfan · Sep 12, 2004

ITA that if it's Schubert's Ave Maria it is a fantastic choice for Totmianina and Marinin. I always enjoy their SPs, they're usually well choreographed and show off their strengths very well.

The LP is a different deal. Sheherezade isn't one of my favorite choices of music for skating, but maybe they'll be able to skate well to it. It certainly has some drama and would give them material to work on expression. That's the only thing this team lacks IMO. Because their skating as a whole is of great, great quality and much better than Shen and Zhao's, their most direct oponents.

BronzeisGolden · Sep 12, 2004

It certainly has some drama and would give them material to work on expression

"Scheherezade" has never been one of my favorites, either. But, I think you are exactly right, RI. T&M have always been a solid team, but I don't think they have exploited their emotional/dramatic potential. Their "Art on Ice" LP was a big leap forward for them in every sense, IMO. I bet "Scheherezade" will be a great program for them.

hockeyfan228 · Sep 12, 2004

I'm disappointed, because I like them a lot, but dislike both pieces of music. That isn't to say that great programs can't be made and skated to these pieces, but I may end up hitting the "mute button" and just watching their line.

pennyfromheaven · Sep 12, 2004

I love "Ave Maria" and can't wait to see what they are going to do with it! I also like "Scheherizade" could also be great depending on what pieces of the music they use.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 12, 2004

I have no complaints about either music. I will look to see what they do with it as I look to anyone else. I don't get carried away with so called beautiful music.

BTW, Many of the early 20th century Russians composers took their cue from Rimsky Korsakov and I believe he is considered the 'father of Russian classical music". Not sure of that but that's what I read somewhere.

Joe

Lucy25 · Sep 12, 2004

I saw T&M do their Ave Maria SP at Skate Detroit in July. Many people in the audience reacted very favorably, but I thought the music was just too slow. It is slow the whole way through. I really like this team, especially their powerful stroking and speed, so I thought this music did not show that off. However, they have a beautiful spiral sequence. I believe, if I remember correctly, they open the program with it. Gorgeous positions. Maybe I will like it after I see it again, but I found my mind totally wandering halfway through the program.

Before anyone asks, I don't know which version of the song it is. I am humming it right now, but I wouldn't know which composer claims it.

I look forward to their LP! Has a pair's team ever used it?

VIETgrlTerifa · Sep 12, 2004

On FSU, they are saying that both programs are choreographed by Lori Nichol.

Mathman · Sep 12, 2004

Lucy25 said:
Before anyone asks, I don't know which version of the song it is. I am humming it right now, but I wouldn't know which composer claims it.

Hi Lucy, here is an album that has 14 different settings of Ave Maria by different composers. The first two are the famous ones, #1 by Schubert and #2 by Bach/Gounold. You can listen to them (scoll down to "listen") and report back :laugh:

Mathman

Eeyora · Sep 13, 2004

If Lori Nichol is doing the choreography for both program this means she finally gets her chance to choreograph Scherazade. :laugh:

Vash01 · Sep 13, 2004

Lucy25 said:
I saw T&M do their Ave Maria SP at Skate Detroit in July. Many people in the audience reacted very favorably, but I thought the music was just too slow. It is slow the whole way through. I really like this team, especially their powerful stroking and speed, so I thought this music did not show that off. However, they have a beautiful spiral sequence. I believe, if I remember correctly, they open the program with it. Gorgeous positions. Maybe I will like it after I see it again, but I found my mind totally wandering halfway through the program.

Before anyone asks, I don't know which version of the song it is. I am humming it right now, but I wouldn't know which composer claims it.

I look forward to their LP! Has a pair's team ever used it?

Yes, it is a slow piece of music and it is lovely to skate to.

Yes. The Protopopovs skated a beautiful pro routine to it, and received all 10.0's- I think it was in the 1980's. More recently, Shishkova & Naumov skated a short program to it around 1995. It was very beautiful, with quiet blades and gorgeous positions.

In ice dance, Annenko & Sretenski used it in 1995 (pro), and more recently Krylova & Ovssianikov skated to it, in 2002 (also a pro routine). Both were wonderful.

Vash

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 13, 2004

VIETgrlTerifa said:
On FSU, they are saying that both programs are choreographed by Lori Nichol.

Interesting that Russians are using a NorthAmerican choreographer. I think that is a good idea. It blends the east and west styles to a greater degree.

Joe

Vash01 · Sep 13, 2004

Joesitz said:
Interesting that Russians are using a NorthAmerican choreographer. I think that is a good idea. It blends the east and west styles to a greater degree.

Joe

T&M in particular have had difficulty impressing the North American audiences.They were often considered boring (although IMO that had to do more with their choice of LP music- WSS and CC). So Lori Nichol would be a good choice for their choreographer, since she knows what audiences in NA like. BTW who choreo'ed their COI routine this year? I heard positive comments about it. I did not get to see it because COI quit visiting Phoenix since last year.

Lucy25 · Sep 13, 2004

Mathman said:
Hi Lucy, here is an album that has 14 different settings of Ave Maria by different composers. The first two are the famous ones, #1 by Schubert and #2 by Bach/Gounold. You can listen to them (scoll down to "listen") and report back

Mathman

Thanks! But I am lazy, so I went back through the Skate Detroit posts on FSU, and it was reported that it was the Gounod version.

euterpe · Sep 13, 2004

Ave Maria is a PRAYER to the mother of Jesus Christ, regardless of which composer's music it is set to. Because of that, I think it is inappropriate to use religious music for figure skating. I didn't like Sarah Hughes' or Fumie Suguri's 'Ave Maria', and I won't like T/M's 'Ave Maria', either.

Mathman · Sep 13, 2004

euterpe said:
Ave Maria is a PRAYER to the mother of Jesus Christ, regardless of which composer's music it is set to. Because of that, I think it is inappropriate to use religious music for figure skating. I didn't like Sarah Hughes' or Fumie Suguri's 'Ave Maria', and I won't like T/M's 'Ave Maria', either.

I understand this point. I was a little uneasy when Michael Weiss did "The Lord's Prayer" as a tribute to his father a few years ago.

But I'm not sure that this objection for the two Ave Marias is really valid. Neither the Bach music nor the Schubert was originally composed as a setting for the Latin Ave Maria text. Since the skaters use only the music and not the words, I don't have any objection to the use of these beautiful melodies standing alone.

The Bach music is from the Well-tempered Clavier -- an exercise book for keyboard which Bach wrote to prove to everyone that it really was possible to play in all 24 keys on a "tempered" piano, where the difference in tone between each successive note in the chromatic scale was the same, instead of relying on the natural "Pythgorean" spacing based on natural harmonics. (Critics thought that tempering would remove the distinctive color of each musical key and make all music sound alike, no matter what key it was played in.)

150 years later Gounod fit the Ave Maria words to it, with slight emendations.

The Schubert music is really "Ellen's song #3." This was a series of lieder that Schubert wrote whose words are a translation into German of the English poem "The Lady of the Lake." The poem is about a girl who prays to the Blessed Virgin, but it was not until later that someone tried to fit the Ave Maria to it (with a little awkwardness, BTW). The tune was also used by Verdi in the opera Otello.

So I think that these melodies can stand on their musical merits without saying either that it is sacreligious to use the music in secular public entertainment, or that this is trying to promote a particular relegion in an inappropriate venue.

I thought Sarah's version was very lovely, especially that gorgeous Ina Bauer at the end.

JMO.

Mathman

euterpe · Sep 13, 2004

But the music is CALLED "Ave Maria", not "Ellen's Song" or "Bach's Variations on a Well-Tempered Clavicord". "Ave Maria" means 'Hail Mary' in Latin, and it is a PRAYER.

New programs for Totmianina and Marinin

kosjenka

Mathman

Antilles

Vash01

RIskatingfan

BronzeisGolden

hockeyfan228

pennyfromheaven

Joesitz (RIP)

Lucy25

VIETgrlTerifa

Mathman

Eeyora

Vash01

Joesitz (RIP)

Vash01

Lucy25

euterpe

Mathman

euterpe

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