General talk and questions on top ladies

Seruleane said:

You should absolutely watch Wakaba's FS. It is like 1000x better than her SP. It really made me a new fan of hers. She has my favorite ladies' FS this season.

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I love her SP , I like it a lot more than her LP.

She skated great in both programs- she really made me a fan before but this season she should slay. I really enjoy her more than Medvedeva. But it seems Evgenia has been crowned. It is like 2010 again where Yuna was gonna win by a landslide unless she messed up which of course she never did ever. Wakaba is really very popular I think not just in Japan but everywhere if you read this board.

I am afraid she may peak too early tho.

I just posted it didn’t go thru? Wakaba is really fun to watch. It is a huge contest for silver and bronze at every comp this year. I hope she beats med somehow..

Edited to ad there was quite a delay of posting-maybe this iPad, oh my forgive the type edited to fix that. I really need new glasses but somehow Dr thinks I see better than I do,

I like watching Wakaba for her power. For sheer balletic grace Maria Sotskova is enchanting. Two different presentations both great.

skateluvr said:

She skated great in both programs- she really made me a fan before but this season she should slay. I really enjoy her more than Medvedeva. But it seems Evgenia has been crowned. It is like 2010 again where Yuna was gonna win by a landslide unless she messed up which of course she never did ever. Wakaba is really very popular I think not just in Japan but everywhere if you read this board.

I am afraid she may peak too early tho.

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Her FS is awesome. I had always felt that Wakaba needed music that are strong and energetic to better showcase her power and blade work. She is not an example of the more typical Japanese lady skater like Satoko or Marin who will do well with softer, lyrical pieces. This FS did allow her to emphasize her basic SS in between elements - just look at the lean and speed variation and multidirectional turns! She really should get higher SS than any of the Russians. The basic SS is the primary reasons I prefer watching the Japanese ladies on ice.

skateluvr said:

I just posted it didn’t go thru? Wakaba is really fun to watch. It is a huge contest for silver and bronze at every comp this year. I hope she eats Medvedevasomehow.

Edited to ad there was quite a delay of posting-maybe this iPad,

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I've also been experiencing problems with the site. Try refreshing the page, the new material usually appears after a couple of uncharacteristic blips.

chapis said:

I love her SP , I like it a lot more than her LP.

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Well what the hell is wrong with me

I swear it felt like an old 1950's background music of what the future will bring or something awkward like that was playing. I only watched it once and it was live stream so hopefully next time I change my mind.

Sam-Skwantch said:

Well what the hell is wrong with me

I swear it felt like an old 1950's background music of what the future will bring or something awkward like that was playing. I only watched it once and it was live stream so hopefully next time I change my mind.

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Thanks for ruining that program forever for me :disapp:.

Globetrotter said:

Her FS is awesome. I had always felt that Wakaba needed music that are strong and energetic to better showcase her power and blade work. She is not an example of the more typical Japanese lady skater like Satoko or Marin who will do well with softer, lyrical pieces. This FS did allow her to emphasize her basic SS in between elements - just look at the lean and speed variation and multidirectional turns! She really should get higher SS than any of the Russians. The basic SS is the primary reasons I prefer watching the Japanese ladies on ice.

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Absolutely agree! Bond girl programs are usually not my favorite, but this one somehow works wonderfully for Wakaba. She's a fierce and athletic skater, this perfectly showcases that, and the program already fits her like a glove even though it's so early in the season. I didn't consider myself a fan of Wakaba previously, but with this FS (and SP is OK, I'm glad others enjoy it more than me), I'd love to see her podium or even win at her events. There were some people who said it didn't look like an Olympic program, but I disagree. This type of program if skated cleanly and with the conviction she gives it will definitely bring standing ovations!

skateluvr said:

She skated great in both programs- she really made me a fan before but this season she should slay. I really enjoy her more than Medvedeva. But it seems Evgenia has been crowned. It is like 2010 again where Yuna was gonna win by a landslide unless she messed up which of course she never did ever. Wakaba is really very popular I think not just in Japan but everywhere if you read this board.

I am afraid she may peak too early tho.

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Wakaba had a couple of rough seasons, but in her first Junior season she was amazing, and she was losing to Sakhanovich and Medvedeva only because they were older and with a more solid reputation. If she is consistent she could get quite close to Evgenia and Alina. And I don't want to believe Evgenia has been crowned already. If "how well can you exploit the IJS" is going to be the way to the victory, I think Alina is a more deserving winner then.

chapis said:

Thanks for ruining that program forever for me :disapp:.

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Well that's because I'm an idiot and far too often post impulsively. My intent was to have someone tell me what I'm missing. It's worked before but this time it backfires. :curse:

Sorry :hopelessness:

Sam-Skwantch said:

I love love love Wakababy's power, finesse,and style. Her technique is very impressive but I'm a little frustrated with her SP. I still haven't watched the FS because I want to wait until the GP, I like to do that with some of the skaters I like, but I'm praying it showcases everything I see in her in a much better light.

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Well, Shae-Lynn sums it up nicely: https://imgflip.com/gif/1xmulu (just a teaser, not a spoiler)

I am amazed you haven't seen the program yet... that takes some mad self restraint!

largeman said:

Well, Shae-Lynn sums it up nicely: https://imgflip.com/gif/1xmulu (just a tease, not a spoiler)

I am amazed you haven't seen the program yet... that takes some mad self restraint!

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Haha...this is great

skateluvr said:

Thank you all -googling didn’t help much with A couple people-it is good to have rink info. I think this is the most competitive ladies season ever. There have never been so many great ladies. As someone said Russian Nationals will be a bloodbath. Personally I prefer Sotskova to Evgenia so far. She really was a surprise. Liza skated better than in a long time but she just isn’t in my top three Russian ladies. I am surprised Leonova still skates- she must just do it for love. I admire her tho. Just so far away from her comrades. Elena is all heart and very expressive I love watching her and Zagitova is getting high pcs. I love Anna P and hope she doesn’t meltdown if she has an off competition but she really is beautiful to watch.

Clearly the battle is between the Russian girls and the two Japanese they decide to send. There should be three it is crazy. I would like to see Wakaba and Miyahara and Honda. Just impossible to think of any of them not at this Olympics plus Mai and Riki.

I was disappointed with Daleman in Finland and she really needs some help to get back to where she was. I don’t like the programs even yet. So sad to see Polina struggle after what she was capable of. Love Kostner for life but she is struggling. Admire her tho she truly loves to skate.

Well I can’t wait to see the ladies so far missing but I hope thenUSA girls have good luck. No Gracie Polina no where near two years ago and Ashley aging as Karen struggles to be consistent. I guess team USA ladies need some miracles. Sigh.

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For me Leonova is kinda like Buddy Lazier in IndyCar motor racing. That now old guy once won the Indy-500 in 1996 and now races just for love to race...even if now he races in Indy-500 only and usually finishes on the bottom half....

[email protected] said:

For 3 years we had threads about "power rankings". The last one was just April 2017. My ranking then was:

1. Medvedeva
2. Zagitova
3. Miyahara
4. Osmond
5. Pogorilaya
6. Honda
7. Kostner
8. Wagner
9. Radionova
10. Chen

If Miyahara, Pogorilaya, and Tsurskaya start to compete my current ranking would be (newcomers in bold):

1. Medvedeva She decided to play it safe keeping familiar jump layout for the season. She has the Kostner level pcs higher than Osmond and much higher than Zagitova
2. Osmond She scored 218 recently with a fall and mistakes. Zagitova won't be able to close pcs gap soon.
3. Zagitova She has the highest BV and FP she skated cleanly many times. She just got 218 with a fall. Clearly Russia's #2.
4. Mihara She seems to be Japan's #1 lady for this season
5. Higuchi She started to receive high pcs and she has one killer of FP. If she can land 3A and be clean she will become Japan's #1 lady. Then they will switch the ranks with Mihara and Wakaba will exert serious pressure on Zagitova and Osmond.
6. Pogorilaya When she is on she is marvelous. But she will be behind Osmond and Japan's #1. I don't see her coming ahead of Zagitova as well.
7. Wagner Realistically she is still the best candidate for USA'a #1 lady. She has the highest pcs potential and she at times can deliver when it matters. But she is not getting younger to be able to overcome technical issues she had.
8. Miyahara Even if she returns to her pre-injury form I don't think she will get back her scores. She had them being Japan's #1 lady. Now that there are 2 serious contenders for that unofficial title her jumps will be likely judged harsher.
9. Sotskova Her test skates and then her recent win in Finlandia with the score of 205 show that she becomes the force to reckon with.
10. Kostner So far she shows sky high pcs, not outstanding but quite solid programs and big issues with jumps. I do not think she can bring back 3Lz and 3-3s but if she can deliver a clean 7 triple program even without backloading she will climb the rankings up to the very top.

Missing from my new list are:

Honda. I think that Japan will be betting on Mihara and Higuchi. Then if Satoko comes back Marin's prospects for this season with only 2 Japanese ladies in the team are not bright.

Radionova. Whatever improvements I saw, they are minor. Sotskova looked better at test skates and very convincing in Finland.

Chen. I don't think she can cure her URs in the eyes of judges. She is very inconsistent. She can only get back to the list if Wagner fails to deliver and then Karen will replace her as USA's #1 lady.

Other big names

Daleman. Finland showed that despite her getting here the worlds' bronze she has not built the reputation for pcs. She had 61 vs. Caro's 72, although her TES was higher.

Tuktamysheva. There are rays of hope here and there. But she has not skated clean FP for quite a while now. She did not score above 200 for quite a while as well losing her match with Sotskova now by 16 points. And what worked 2 seasons ago: many competitions with slow reputation build-up does not seem to work this time as she does not show much of improvement and the competition is much tougher nowadays.

Tsurskaya. In theory she could be in the list. But I just don't see how she will be able to get the momentum. She did not show up at test skates and challengers - that's a bad sign.

Gold. Whatever information is available gives the impression that she is missing this season.

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And what about Courtney, Mariah and so on?

Hevari said:

And what about Courtney, Mariah and so on?

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They are not top ladies in my personal ranking system. The only one who is not there and can appear as a "candidate" is Mirai Nagasu after her clear win over Karen Chen at JO. If she goes strong during next week's GP event, if she scores above 200 that will be an indication that she may become US lady #1. It means that she will have to be considered while talking about lady power rankings.

[email protected] said:

For 3 years we had threads about "power rankings". The last one was just April 2017. My ranking then was:

1. Medvedeva
2. Zagitova
3. Miyahara
4. Osmond
5. Pogorilaya
6. Honda
7. Kostner
8. Wagner
9. Radionova
10. Chen

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How interesting.. it is good you mentioned this is your VERY PERSONAL ranking, and it reflect more of the hype you wish to push for Russian skaters.

My personal ranking today would be based on if everyone went 100% clean skating to their potential best based on what we have seen. I never place much on hype, propaganda or some European B scores with crazy inflation to affect these views.

1. Kostner (in her Olympic triples FS form. Deserve the highest PCS in the field at her best. Most importantly her program has depth, sophistication, and quality beyond the COP fluff - over rewarding bonuses and features instead of emphasis on good core basics. I always believed artistic difficulty should weigh heavily as part of judging PCS - and it should affect the overall field, ie/ everyone's scaling adjusted according to the depth of competition/difficulty as it has limit of 10 only. Of course how artistically successful should also be reflected in the scoring. Her programs exemplify how senior ladies should strive for, but rarely bother to attempt last 3 years (except Chen's On the Golden Pond FS). Not skating for points, but about striving for a balance of everything that is true to their 'personal philosophy' to create their own unique figure skating vision, that is memorable and can stand the test of time, well beyond COP era. An artistic version of quads should always win over artist version 3 toeloops. Best skating skills in the field should weigh more too.
2. Higuchi (With 3As in both short and long. Based on the strength of her FS, which is the best FS program so far, the program screams Olympic moment.)
3. Osmond (Superb short but a repeat, had it not been a repeat I'd switch with 2. Despite the FS did not go as planned recently, skate clean and with greater expressions, it can be great. Big jumps, attack style with speed comes with bigger risks, and naturally, should be rewarded more.)
4. Chen (US champion goes clean with some of the best execute elements in the field deserve among the highest GOEs and PCS. I have a thing about big 3lz3ts. Same reason why Osmond deserve higher marks for her big 3/3s. Jump wise, she is among the best in the field. Musically and artistically strong, someone who knows how to milk musical highlights in her choreography and create incredible spiral and layback spins moment. Everything good about figure skating. Big risks, big rewards, consistency is a cost of it.)
5. Medvedeva (Fantastic consistency, but someone who won by virtue of bonuses and features rather than what makes good figure skating, at least to me. Still appears rather Juniorish in presentation with literally the same interpretation and same program every year. The lack of highlight or unique qualities (other than miming) in and between her programs ends up being a highlight why she is not yet a complete skater, the ongoing PCS and GOEs inflation does not help my view of her work. She won by flaws of the COP, or advantages of rules. Will her programs outlast the COP era?)
6. Nagasu (with 3As + Vancouver form = Mighty Mirai!! The reason I put her below Wakaba is due to artistic expressions and program quality, it is not quite there yet but if she improves, I will push her higher.)
7. Honda (If PCS rewards artistry, quality, and elegance above consistency, I would push her up quite a few places. She need bigger jumps, like the ones Wakaba and Karen wowed me.)
8. Miyahara (among the complete skater which ideally I'd like to rank just below Kostner, but everything is just smaller. As a result, I think everything should be proportionately reduced according to athletic quality and effort, same reason I did not put Medvedeva that high... this is still a sport of Stronger, Faster, Higher and balance of athleticism and artistry for me.)
9. Wagner (PCS should be among the strongest in the field close to Kostner and Osmond, but her tech is always a bit uncertain. As I am not a fan of repeat programs. Had she done at least a Lala land, I would have up her quite a few places)
10. Pogorilaya (If Anna boosts her consistency, she deserve to be in the top 5 every year. Power, speed, attack, big jumps, take risks, among my fav type of skaters. I still have not seen her programs, if they are any good, I will push her higher.)

Honourable mentions (no particular order)

Tuktamysheva (Really need 3A, better programs, better costumes. Sad to see how this former WC with great technique kind of fell out of favors with her feds, as they pushing for youngsters as better bets. No more 3t3t SP please Liza, you are better than that!)
Radionova Really wish someone kit her out with better programs and packaging. Star qualities in spades but without the right vehicle to show for it.
Daleman (Would have ranked her higher last year - as I have a thing for power skaters, but I am just not wowed by her program this year which seems to insist work against her strength.)
Zagitova (if figure skating is a sport of the greatest backloader wins, she should rank 1st. I would even start to name 'doing a Zagitova' forever in her honour for whoever is able to backload everything in the 2nd half. Close to make top 10. However, I look for a complete package and what should exemplify senior ladies skating: athletic qualities, power, speed, jumps, and most importantly seasoned artistry and the importance of a great program. She may be a superb junior for now. This is the senior ladies, it is a different level field. For example, you are supposed to show you can skate with the music, not music edited to suit your content and style like Medvedeva's typical programs. When this happens, it is supposed to hurt your PCS, particularly in interpretation and choreographic content. The fact they were repeat programs highlights her limitation and lack of range which should be factored in PCS. High TES, but much lower in PCS, early 50s.
Sotskova (If she had been Korean, she wouldn't have got these sort of high PCS. Lack of expression in her performances bothers me, but she does have some nice qualities in her skating, better than Medvedeva (positions, carriage, flow), just not memorable. Need more dynamic programs to bring out her personalities and charisma bit more to stand out from the Russian youngsters. One thing about Medvedeva is her star qualities which really helps the overall impression.
Leonova Her Bolllywood program was one of my fav FS concept this year. Wish there are more people who is willing to try new thing as much as her. But she has over the years become kind of a caricature of herself, Fumi of Russia.

i knew approximate content of the last post even before i opened this thread

[email protected] said:

They are not top ladies in my personal ranking system. The only one who is not there and can appear as a "candidate" is Mirai Nagasu after her clear win over Karen Chen at JO. If she goes strong during next week's GP event, if she scores above 200 that will be an indication that she may become US lady #1. It means that she will have to be considered while talking about lady power rankings.

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I've seen Mariah in person and if she is on she is as good as any elite skater albeit in her own way. Strong interpretation and very smooth transitions. Her scores may not reflect it it due to inconsistency but her potential is very high. I hope she achieves it one day because she would look great in a world medal. Even if it's in an off year or something which has been known to happen. The US scene is anything but stable and working into the top spot isn't inconceivable to me.

russianfan said:

i knew approximate content of the last post even before i opened this thread

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The good thing is that it has as little to do with reality as The game of thrones has to do with the history of Middle ages.

Polina T is on youtube -a russian test skate? I wish posters used English. also Anna p has a Sp up- maybe more. Please Russians I can’t post links on iPad unless someone teaches me. What is this Russian skate about? Links please . Both looked lovely-Polina T is elegance personified.