Kudryavtsev Interview | Golden Skate

Kudryavtsev Interview

Ptichka

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Jul 28, 2003
Here is a slightly older inerview with Victor Kudryavtsev, the coach of Elena Sokolova, Julia Soldatova, and VIctoria Volchkova (the latter trains with his wife Marina). It was taken shortly before Worlds, and contains some very interesting bits. NOTE: For some reason, the board won't let me post the whole inerview in one post, so Il''l break it into several posts

Figure skating – coaches, interviews by Elena Vaicehovskaya.

Victor Kudryavtsev: In his school, he followed the American way​
The Russian National champions of 2004 became a true triumph of Victor Kudryavtsev. His students -- Elena Sokolova, Julia Soldatova, and Kristina Oblasova took up the whole podium. That, given that two of this trio have left the coach, certain they'll never be back.
BAD LUCK FORMULA
Victor Nikolaevich, did you suppose they'd be back?

Kudryavtsev stayed silent, listening to his own thoughts, aloofly rolling a glass of water between his fingers, and finally, after pause, having measured me with attentively piercing eyes, curtly replied, "No".

From the many years when I've observed this coach's work in figure skating, two ideas materialized almost as an axiom: Kudryavtsev is one of the best, most nuanced technicians of his sport in the world (if not the very best), and... He is the unluckiest of all his colleagues. His students left him as regularly as the graduates leave the college, barely attaining substantive athletic education. It is almost as at some point of growing up, some vital mechanism in the athlete-coach link broke beyond repair.

"Could they just lack human understanding?” I once quietly inquired. This was after Ilya Kulik, crowned the European champion, left the Kudryavtsev team. Apparently, the wound was too fresh. "I am not going to become their nanny", grumbled the coach, and quickly switched the subject.

In consequent conversations I tried avoiding the subject of relationships, as it was becoming ever more painful. Maria Butyrskaya followed Kulik as she left Kudryavtsev to train with Elena Tchaikovskaya. In 1998, Julia Lautowa and Julia Soldatova left Marina (Kudryavtsev's wife) to train with Tchaikovskaya. The former started competing for Austria, the latter was forced by the coach to take Belorussian citizenship, rationalizing that not competing for Russia guaranteed a place on a national team. Skaters were promised gold mines, and neither Lautowa nor Soldatova suspected that Butyrskaya's success will remain unique, and they will be in for huge disappointments.

From once the largest and most competitive group in the country, only Victoria Volchkova remained with Kudryavtsev at the end of 2000 (Sokolova went to look for the athletic happiness with Alexei Mishin to Petersburg). To all the journalists who seemed most preoccupied with the question of "who next?", the skater stubbornly repeated, "I will never leave my coach. We have a complete understanding".

In 2002 season, Volchkova started training with Oleg Vasiliev.

Though by then the first martlet has come back under Kudryavtsev's wing -- Sokolova.
 

Ptichka

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Kurdyavtsev interview part 2

NO TWO PARTINGS ARE THE SAME
Why didn't you expect to come back?

Somehow I did not believe that those who left will be able to re-examine the situation; not simply understand that we provided them with better conditions and more attention, but to really accept it. Turns out they accepted it, if they came back.

I constantly analyzed what happened. I tried understanding the reasons why they left. Certainly, we always had very high internal competitiveness. Add to that everyone's selfish motives. It's possible the athletes thought they weren't getting enough attention. Though I always found a way to work with each one individually. Even now, though Sokolova is the group leader, Soldatova for instance gets no less attention. Luckily we at "Moskvich" have enough ice. At the beginning of the season even Zhanna Gromova with her students (Slutskaya, Dobrin, Najdenova) worked at our rink, and we had no problem arranging for Slutskaya to not cross paths with Sokolova.

Whose leaving was the most painful?

Probably Sokolova. I put too much effort into her. Also, she had no real reason to leave. Lena always gave Volchkova the lead, but that was caused by the lack of real professionalism in her training approach, not some exclusive conditions supposedly created for Volchkova.

So, having taken back Sokolova, you created conditions that led Volchkova to think of leaving herself?

That conflict began long before Lena returned. Not so much with Vika, as with her parents. They constantly interfered in the coaching process. I remember when she just started skating with me, her mom immediately said, "You must select for her music that is beautiful, but slow".

Vika is a difficult girl as it is. All five years we worked together, she tried pushing the skating style she is comfortable with. From my perspective, though, it had to be very different.

Seeing that my plans and directions are not followed, I too often thought it could be pointless to continue the work that was doomed. So Vika leaving did not hurt me as much.

Coach changes usually lead to conflicts between old and new coaches. How hard was it for you to keep normal relations with Tatiana Tarasova after Ilya Kulik went to train with her?

I always keep normal relations. Even with Mishin when Sokolova went to him. You see, there can be different reasons why skaters leave. The athlete has a right to make a choice. For example, I can perfectly understand a skater who says he's tired of constant work with the same coach year after year, and wants something new. In that case, a switch can often be justified. And it doesn't mean that the old coach has to immediately sever all ties to the former student. If, that is, he wants to see him continue growing.

On the other hand, coach changes have to first: be financially fair; and second: be somehow explained to others. This avoids a train of gossips and innuendoes.

There is also a concept of coaching ethics. This includes relations with athletes who have switched coaches. It's hard to respect a coach who doesn't stick to the ethics. For instance, if you listen to Tchaikovskaya, you get the impression that all her students left their former coaches because those coaches have no talent, and by definitions cannot get any results. She doesn’t just say it about me either.

I recall being really surprised you not only remained friendly with Tarasova, but even helped her.

Tarasova asked for help herself. Furthermore, each time we met she always asked for my opinion. She asked for advice on the jumps and on Kulik's programs in general. Clearly, I was hurt and upset when Ilya left. But even after that he remained, to me, "my" athlete, into whom I've poured immeasurable resources. So why should I not continue to help him if he needs it?

Did you share the common opinion then that Tarasova won't succeed in single skating, since she knows nothing about jumps?

I realized that taking on Kulik was a huge responsibility. At first, it was indeed quite rough. I am sure there were doubts, as well as fear of experimentation. Even when the athlete jumps well, it often happens that something just doesn't work. It was at such a time that Tarasova turned to me. I consider it a very high coaching quality -- not being afraid to admit there is something you cannot do, to ask for advice. Because that's not what’s important. Ultimately, did Kulik start jumping worse with Tarasova? No, and neither did Yagudin.
 

Ptichka

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Kurdyavtsev interview part 3

RUSAKOV AND KLIMKIN
Shortly before his death Igor Rusakov mentioned that the Russian Skating Federation insists he give his student Ilia Klimkin to Tchaikovskaya. How did he end up with you?

A long professional friendship united Igor and me. He was a decent single skater, always distinguished by his originality, imagination, and creativity. No wonder he went to GITIS and graduated. At one point my son Anton skated with him. Even then, I saw a serious coach in him. I trusted him. And he - me. Probably, that's why a year ago Rusakov gladly took me up on my offer to move with his skaters to the rink at "Tekstilshiki". We then got our own ice, while Igor kept having problems with it at SUP where he worked. I was also thinking that Rusakov is younger than I, and can eventually lead the whole school.

But you knew he was ill.

I never suspected it was that serious. I was certain he'd get better. To me, Igor's death was a real shock. I thought it was just a temporary worsening, it has happened before.

Don't forget, he got sick a long time ago -- seven, eight years. He then went to France to undergo some serious chemotherapy. He was getting better so fast that no one even suspected that the illness could come back. He was looking good, gaining his strength, confidence, and well of ideas.

Then, last spring he suddenly got worse. Igor again went to France but this time their doctors didn't even do anything. They probably knew it was pointless.

By May or June Igor no longer left home. I only got to see him once. He said he couldn't work, and asked that I take care of Ilya Klimkin. We then both thought it was just temporary.

Only when Klimkin came to my camp in Switzerland did I find out how serious his coach’s condition really was. Igor lost a lot of weight, and was so weak he couldn't even talk on the phone. At the same time, there was no pain. May be, if there was pain, the doctors would start something earlier and more aggressive. But no one suspected a thing. Igor himself did not want anyone to see him like that. He even seized talking to Ilya, though to him that was the closest person on earth after his mother.

It's easy for you to work with Klimkin?

Yes, very.
AMERICAN SECRET
A few years ago, you substantively predicted Tara Lipinski's victory at Nagano Olympics, when she wasn't even 14 yet. Please explain why at home we keep hearing that the lady skater has to mature?

One of the reasons is that in America the athletes get exposure long before they start winning. Evan Lysacek, this year’s Junior Grand Prix Final and the Junior US champion, used to train with me. And even two years ago he won an expensive car via a sports lottery. It wasn't a coincident, but a planned action by the US figure skating association. The athlete who knows a lot of money has been invested in him acts differently. He feels responsible.

Ladies single skating is a separate issue. It's a cult in the US. It so dominates that the Nationals sometimes gather as many as 70 athletes in each age group! To complete such championships, they have to start at 7 am. For Americans, that's OK. They are used to it. Take Lipinski -- she trained 8 hours a day, and skated both programs daily. Our athletes cannot imagine this. American girls grow up realizing that one can become a 15-year-old Olympic champion. Ours can't even entertain such a thought.

Many still insist that Russia has as many talented kids as the US. Actually, the recent National championship supports this. Where does it all go?

You know what's the difference between American kids skating versus ours? All of our coaches put in so many triple jumps into the program that the child starts failing even what he was doing well before. Americans, on the other hand, only put in the elements they are consistent on. So they enjoy it more. They smile, they explore the music... At my school, I try following this route. We demand from the kids first and foremost exactness of movements. The athlete may not jump a triple, but he must do a double by the book. This teaches them from the beginning to be clean. Not to break. The difficulty can always be added later.
IDEAL VS. REALITY
Talking about difficulty. Do you believe that any of the present generation of skaters will do all quadruple jumps?

A skater such as Plushenko could do it. However, it's one thing to execute each quad separately, and a different thing to put them all into one program.

If you had to create a model of a perfect figure skater, whom would you take from the present generation?

Good question. I'd probably take Yagudin's jumps. Plushenko's jumps are also excellent, but he doesn't have Alexei's explosiveness. For spins, I like Sandhu. He has a good variety, different from what others are doing, and a good rotation speed. For footwork and transitions, I've always preferred Kulik's style. Ilya always tried creating a skating unique to him. It should never be like a cookie-cutter. I recently saw a performance of his, and was seriously impressed as a coach. Though looking at the program overall, I prefer Yagudin's style – it’s extremely expressive, yet truly masculine.

I realize it's not too tactful to ask this question of of coach of vice-World champion, but assuming that an American lady skater will win the games at Turin, whom would you predict?

Michelle Kwan.

You think she'll get it for all her years in the sport?

Why? She now skates very well. A phenomenal skater.

How so?

Well, start with all the exposure I've mentioned. Kwan entered the World elite already a star. Though if you look at the details of her skating, it's nothing special. Even the spins, which the women tend to do better than men -- Kwan's don't have the power of Plushenko's.

Michelle has something else. Accuracy, finesse in execution of elements, exactness of musical phrases. Also, she now trains with Rafik Arutunyan, and Russian coaches work better than American ones.

I recently heard something similar from Tarasova.

It's the truth. By the way, after Tarasova was forced to break with Sasha Cohen, I heard from a reliable source that the whole action was planned and developed ahead of time. That it wasn't the matter of Cohen's mom, or Sasha's personality. Rather that a partnership of potentially the best skater with the Russian coach was originally unacceptable to the American federation.

What if Sasha Cohen stayed with Tarasova?

Then I'd bet on her in Turin.
 
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Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Parts 3 & 4

Somehow part 3 and part 4 (if there was one) got omitted and part 2 got posted several times.

I'd love to read the rest of this article.

I am a horse riding coach and there are great differences - starting with money - between what I do and what this master figure skating coach does (and I am most definitly NOT a master). However, reading this article made me note the similarities.

Students coming, students going, my own changes in coaches over the years (because I ride and train my own horses as well as teach others) - there are elements of the teacher-student relationship that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject being taught.

Regarding Vika specifically - she is magnificant but has yet to find the key to enduring greatness on the ice. Perhaps it is this tug of war between who her mother thinks she is, who her coach thinks she is, and who she herself is or wants to be. The comments made by her then ex-coach (and now she's back with him, right?) were perhaps unwise of him to make... or perhaps were a catalyst to her examining where she is going. I hope fervently that we will see her best work in the coming season.

Linny
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
As usual, thank you Pitchka for the articles and with the translation. I enjoy reading about someone who has conviction even if it is nothing more than his opinions. I'd like to read more from him.

(It's not clear why so many top tier Russian skaters left him.)

Joe
 

Ptichka

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I think the skaters left because they just did not believe Kudryavtsev could make them champions. He is a great technician, but perhaps he has trouble adding that je ne sais quoi. Examples:

Kulik left K. for Tarasova. Many reasons for that. One, he wanted 100% of the coach's attention, and K. is all about his "team". Two, he wanted to be a star, and Tarasova has raised quite a few of those. And, he probably thought that K. has already taught him enough technique, and he just needed the finish now. Don't know if he would have won Olympics with K.

Butyrskaya left for Tchaikovksaya. Actually, a good move. After the switch, her confidence really developed. However, all her technique she certainly got from K. Would she have become World champ with K.? Nobody knows, but I doubt it. In fact, from what I've read, by the time Maria left him, he all but gave up on her. She would be perfect in practice, but then bomb at competition. K. thought she should skate in shows, where her nerves would not hold her back.

The other girls -- Soldatova, Lautowa -- obviously thought they could also have that jump in their career from Tchaikovksaya. Never happened, though. Both went back (though Lautowa works with Marina, not Victor).

Elena Sokolova left K. to train with Mishin. I can understand her wanting to train with Plushenko's coach. Plushy has that "star" quality about him, and Elena probably wanted to as well. She may have also felt that K. was paying to much attention to Volchkova. By all accounts, though, the partnership was a complete disaster.

Vika is one example I do not fully understand. OK, she wants to leave K., but why go to Vasiliev?! Again, from what I've read here and there, it does seem that her mother and grandmother were the ones calling the shots. Having also spent some time with Tchaikovksaya, she is now back.

Also in K's team are Oblasova and Klimkin; he's worked part time with Vlascenko, Lysacek, and many others. I think he conducts summer seminars in Chicago and Switzerland.
 
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Eeyora

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Aug 4, 2003
What a wonderful read! I love to hear what is happening with the Russian skaters. He certainly has an interesting take on the American ladies.
 

hockeyfan228

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Jul 26, 2003
Ptichka from Kudriatsev interview said:
Rather that a partnership of potentially the best skater with the Russian coach was originally unacceptable to the American federation.
Ironic, then, that Kwan is coached by Arutunian.

Since there's not much the USFS can do to Tarasova or anyone else in her camp -- and like Weir wouldn't tell them to go bite themselves if they told him to stay away from her summers -- if this is really true, then the threat must have been to Cohen.
 

Jaana

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Jul 27, 2003
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Ptichka said:
Kulik left K. for Tarasova. Many reasons for that. One, he wanted 100% of the coach's attention, and K. is all about his "team". Two, he wanted to be a star, and Tarasova has raised quite a few of those. And, he probably thought that K. has already taught him enough technique, and he just needed the finish now. Don't know if he would have won Olympics with K.

I have read a Kudriatshev interview where he mentioned that Ilia left him because he wanted to train in USA (because of better training conditions) and Kudriatshev could not follow him. Kudriatshev also mentioned in the same article that Ilia had thanked him for his Olympic win.

Marjaana
 

Ptichka

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hockeyfan228 said:
Since there's not much the USFS can do to Tarasova or anyone else in her camp -- and like Weir wouldn't tell them to go bite themselves if they told him to stay away from her summers -- if this is really true, then the threat must have been to Cohen.
Hockeyfan, I agree with you that his does not sound true. Though I've heard it before -- it just doesn't sound like USFSA to me. BTW, even if true, they could still be fine with Weir/TT thing, since Weir's main coach is stil Hill.
 

Ptichka

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Joesitz said:
As usual, thank you Pitchka for the articles and with the translation. I enjoy reading about someone who has conviction even if it is nothing more than his opinions. I'd like to read more from him.
Well, here is a MUCH older interview with him, one where he makes correct predictions for Nagano. :laugh:

Figure Skating - coaches
Victor KUDRYAVTSEV: Ladies are unpredictable? So much the better!

His coaching career can be considered successful: Ludmila Smirnova/ Andrei Suraikin, Sergei Volkov, Konstantin Kokora, Kira Ivanova, Maria Butyrskaya, Ilya Kulik -- all have trained with Kudryavtsev. At the same time, many consider him a loser. Volkov wom the World championships and left Kudryavtsev for Stanislav Zhuk. Kokora became a national champion and swtich for Elena Tchaikovksaya. Ivanova, having collected a rich medal collections, moved to Vladimir Kovalev. In 1996 Kulik (already the European champion and World vice-champion) chose to continue his career with Tatiana Tarasova; finally, less than a month ago, Butyrskaya has left for Tchaikovksaya as Kokora once did. Well, it's not that rare to have a remarkable coach out of work.

Kudryavstsev refused to grant me an interview. "I don't want to appear to get back at anyone. More so since during the world championships," he said "I can like or dislike how my former students are doing with other coaches, but consider it inappropriate to comment on it."

We finally talked after I promised to keep on the subject of figure skating.

"What direction do you think the single skating is going to tak in the near future?"

"I think the difficulty will determine all. Look at this championship: 30 athletes do a triple axel, which is considered once of the more difficult figure skating jumps. Not everyone succeeds in competition, but all skaters do the axel rather consistently at practices. At Lausanne, 12 people have shown quarduple jumps. This shows that it's transforming from a unique to a regular element. And that given a very high competition level, the one who will be first to do the quad perfectly will be the winner.

"The difficulty always leads to lower artistry?"

"It depends on your definition. Personally, I don't believe that artistry can exist independent from the technique. In my book, expression is first and foremost the ability to do the element simply and beautifully. One can create a difficult program, skate it well, choose dramatic music and theatrical costume, yet the skating will remain wooden. A child must be taught the true science of moving from his first steps on the ice. Presentation cannot exist in one given program. It either exists, or it doesn't."

"In that case, what do you think about the two-time World champion Elvis Stojko and world champion Todd Eldridge; even the laziest critics talk about their lack of expressivenss."

"When they are in good shape, their skating can be quite expressive. Though the programs should be better, but that's a matter of taste." But if the person doesn't skate well, even the most brilliant choreography starts looking bleak, and all add-ons just ridiculous.

"How many athletes do you believe can now fight for the gold?"

"Five, I think. Stojko, Eldridge, Ilya Kulika, Alexei Urmanov, and Vyacheslav Zagoronuk. Perhaps Lesha Yagudin will join as well. Though I think he is still not quite ready for that level competition.

"Who would you bet for among the five for the Nagano games?"

"Kulik. First of all, he's my student, and I prepared him specifically to fight for the Nagano gold. I see a little more potential in him that in others. Though that potential has not yet opened in full.

"Could you make such a prediction for ladies?"

"I won't even try. Ladies are unpredictable. They often undergo changes in psyche, and working with them is more difficult in terms of physiology. Think of it, who would have thought a few months ago that the world champion Michelle Kwan will lose the national championshiop to Tara Lipinski?"

"Do you consider it reasonable that the Americans themselves openely put forth Lipinski as their #1 Olympian?"

"Absolutely. First, her program is extremely difficult. Second, resisting the pressure of the Olympics is always far easier for those not yet mature enough to really understand the gravity of what's going on. For those who have nothing to lose. Paradoxically, Lipinski's main advantage is that she hasn't gone through puberty yet, while her main competitiors last year -- Kwan, Lu Chen, Irina Slutskaya -- apparently fell right into it."

"Ho do you determine that?"

"The technique starts breaking. When a skater begins growing, her body changes, the weight usually increases, and the center of gravity shifts. So, all familiar feelings get lost, and one must learn anew. The higher one's technique, the quicker this can be fixed without loosing the former difficulty."

"Som, if the next increase in ladies skating is inevitable, we have to bet exclusively on little kids?"

"I didn't say that. I can site Butyrskaya. She is one of the most experienced and mature athletes, but she performs perhaps the most difficult jumps. For a few years now, during training for Europeans and Worlds, she does a triple axel, which is very rare among women; she's even tried the quad."

"Sorry for a non-sanctioned question, but why did Butyrskaya leave you for Elene Tchaikovksaya?"

"Ask Masha. In Moscow, she stopped going to practices after Europeans; when I called I was told she wasn't home; later on, I found out she was already in the US. I've heard of how both Butryskaya and Tchaikovskaya supposedly really wanted to talk to me, but just couldn't find me in Moscow. Apparently, they can't find me in Lausanne either.

"So, you came to the Worlds as a tourist?"

"First of all, I came to look at my work. I mean both Butyrskaya and Kulik."

"I always thought that working with ladies skating must be most enjoyable. Is that so?"

"Why? I like singles skating in general, whether its men's or women's. My first coaching experience was with a pair: my skaters Smirnova/ Surajkin came second at the 72 Olympics in Sapporo. It's just that I quickly realized I could work with pairs and singles simoltanuously. So I had to choose what I liked better."

"You never wanted to make something on the ice, that nobody else does? Or is it impossible in modern skating? I don't mean jump combinations."

"Working on anything other than jumps doesn't pay off. Originality is worthless to the judges, so it's pointless to waste training time on it. Though, of course, I do have ideas. In any case, I really like it when the viewers remember the program as a whole, not just how many times the skater fell, or what jumps he did.

"Do you put together and arrange the music yourself?"

"My wife (E.V. - Marina Kudryavtseva, the coach of Igor Pashkevich and Julia Lautowa) usually arranges it, then the sound operator makes is all professional.

"Why do you and Marina not work together?"

"We do. On the same rink."

"Yet she has her students, and you have yours. Doesn't this competition hinder your family life?"

"Hmmmm, it depends. You see, I once made Marina a skater. Then a coach. We have long worked together, but there came a moment when she wanted to try achieving something on her own. On the one hand, I was hurt. On the other, it's a natural coaching vanity. If one doesn't have it, they should just get out of figure skating."

"I know you consult for many foreign skaters. Have you thought of going to work abroad in the last few years?"

"No. I am by my nature a non-foreign person, I like working at home."

"This makes you essentially unemployed?"

"If I need money, I can quickly make some through lectures and seminars. In quite a few countries I am far more expensive than in Russia."

Lausanne - Moscow​
1997
 

Jaana

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Thanks for all those interesting interviews! So, he predicted Ilia to win in Nagano.... About Ilia, I read on Su-jan´s Katia forum that he took his step-daughter Daria to train in Viktor K´s summer camp in Flims, Switzerland this summer. The whole family was there.

Marjaana
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Thanks again Pitchka -

He is a fascinating man and many of those 'opinions' are well thought out and not just something to say. I liked the part of the Nagano ladies all going through puberty except Lipinski. That was so true.

And he doesn't put down Ilia's competitors. He speaks well of them.

Great guy!

Joe
 
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