WADA rejects appeals from Russia

gmyers · Nov 24, 2017

luckyguy said:
The International Olympic Committee will on Monday publish the reasoning for one of the 14 Russian athletes it has handed Olympic life bans in connection with doping schemes at the 2014 Games in Sochi.

Why are they waiting so long?

Obviously to drag it out like they have dragged everything out in this situation

Sam-Skwantch · Nov 24, 2017

Eclair said:
you're trolling me right? I can't seriously believe you really think people with mental illnesses should tell the public (even when they are not ready, or they don't want to) and that would have a positive effect with all the internet trolls out there.

You just can’t say in all of the cases everyone who takes ADHD medication is on the verge of breakdown. It seems a little harsh and there is no reason that a certified psychologist couldn’t stake his reputation on it and have a look at an athlete’s state and file a “privacy of treatment” on behalf of an athlete. . In a way disclosing certain medications publicly such as thyroid medication, amphetamine treatment, and various steroid uses being consumed by athletes will act as a deterrent in some aspects. If the public is informed and notice that a strange majority of a team are plagued by a particular illness that only requires banned substances to compete then some flags may be raised. It could help athletes from being guided to doctors that will legally dope them. Regardless of the health effects.

Like I said earlier...there are pros and cons on the matter. Only acting on the most extreme cases to set regulations may in fact help create an environment that our athletes become susceptible to coaches who abuse the system.

Baron Vladimir · Nov 24, 2017

Eclair said:
you're trolling me right? I can't seriously believe you really think people with mental illnesses should tell the public (even when they are not ready, or they don't want to) and that would have a positive effect with all the internet trolls out there.

Dont twist my words. Im not saying they should talk when they are not ready. I said that nobody should forbid them to talk about their problems if they want to and how confrotation with the problem both in the individual and in their society via talking is focal point of therapy. If that individual is public persona, there is no reason not to be open with that in public if he/she wants for fans to know about that... and i gave you an example how that went well with fan support.. If you really think that person concern in those cases should be some internet trolls, then you are trolling me.

Eclair · Nov 24, 2017

Baron Vladimir said:
Dont twist my words. Im not saying they should talk when they are not ready. I said that nobody should forbid them to talk about their problems if they want to and how confrotation with the problem both in the individual and in their society via talking is focal point of therapy. If that individual is public persona, there is no reason not to be open with that in public if he/she wants for fans to know about that... and i gave you an example how that went well with fan support.. If you really think that person concern in those cases should be some internet trolls, then you are trolling me.

I'm not twisting your words. I thought that was the whole point of our conversation:
You said: ADHS should be public information for athletes. Doesn't matter if they want to or not.
I say: No, it's private information and only the athletes themselves should decide who they tell or not and when they tell or not.

Because right now, nobody forbids Simone Biles to talk about her illness if she wanted to. But she didn't want to but was forced to as she was hacked and that information was made public - without her being ready to tell anyone, without her knowledge or it being her decision.

Alex D · Nov 24, 2017

mrrice said:
A new report on the Bobsled Team from Russia. What I'd like to know is how this happens?? What's the point of having WADA if it takes years to catch these people! There has to be a way of testing these athlete's the day that they arrive for the event. Ban them BEFORE they race and eliminate all the controversy. I think it would deter these athletes from trying to cheat if there was a fear of being eliminated before they get the chance to compete. If Lance Armstrong were eliminated before he got to race......It would be sad but, you wouldn't have to go back and rewrite the history of the race.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...bach-warns-critics/ar-BBFAZos?ocid=spartanntp

I can predict that in the next few years, many world class athletes will be confirmed as cheaters for most of their career. This is not a secret, you only need to look at the statistics in certain disciplines. Athletes are better than everyone who actually cheated, that is not a miracle, but a human made product.

There are many new techniques that the WADA can´t track down, they don´t know how to detect it, as they don´t know after what they need to look.

Btw. the most doping is still done during practice, a time when nobody is there to actually run a check. There is also a lot of covering up in the national committees and those that rule the sports industry.

There have people died for speaking the truth and money can silence most...

This whole thing is really not a Russian problem, its worldwide.

Baron Vladimir · Nov 24, 2017

Eclair said:
I'm not twisting your words. I thought that was the whole point of our conversation:
You said: ADHS should be public information for athletes. Doesn't matter if they want to or not.
I say: No, it's private information and only the athletes themselves should decide who they tell or not and when they tell or not.

Because right now, nobody forbids Simone Biles to talk about her illness if she wanted to. But she didn't want to but was forced to as she was hacked and that information was made public - without her being ready to tell anyone, without her knowledge or it being her decision.

No, i was not saying that. I was looking at Simon as a human with a problem, whose problem should be acknoweldge to her society because she, as a human would live easier with that. Giving her medicaments and not allowed her to talk about that wouldn solve her life with ADHS for sure. So why they are doing that was my question for you before? I think only because she was giving them medals and money. They really dont care about her health. And like i said in earlier post, dealing with her health was my prime concern to talk about that... Only my second concern is toward other athletes...and what i think is that there should be public debate including athletes themselves about TUE - is it right for them to use those kind of medicaments while consuming proffesional sport, or it is not.

Eclair · Nov 24, 2017

Baron Vladimir said:
No, i was not saying that. I was looking at Simon as a human with a problem, whose problem should be acknoweldge to her society because she, as a human would live easier with that. Giving her medicaments and not allowed her to talk about that wouldn solve her life with ADHS for sure. So why they are doing that was my question for you before? I think only because she was giving them medals and money. They really dont care about her health. And like i said in earlier post, dealing with her health was my prime concern to talk about that... Only my second concern is toward other athletes...and what i think is that there should be public debate including athletes themselves about TUE - is it right for them to use those kind of medicaments while consuming proffesional sport, or it is not.

yes, some athletes talk opening about their TUE - Charlie white for example has asthma and talked about applying for TUE. Some athletes don't want to talk about their illnesses - Simone Biles didn't want to talk about it and Evgenia also don't like to talk about her injuries. That' just their personality or their decision.

If medical information of athletes were made public information instead of being private information, no-one would have a choice whether they want to tell the public or not. They would be forced to tell. And that can't be right.

Baron Vladimir · Nov 24, 2017

Eclair said:
yes, some athletes talk opening about their TUE - Charlie white for example has asthma and talked about applying for TUE. Some athletes don't want to talk about their illnesses - Simone Biles didn't want to talk about it and Evgenia also don't like to talk about her injuries. That' just their personality or their decision.

If medical information of athletes were made public information instead of being private information, no-one would have a choice whether they want to tell the public or not. They would be forced to tell. And that can't be right.

But, i was saying - essential part of therapy with ADHS is that society around person who has it, should know about that. You cant properly help a person with ADHS another way. Because, the biggest problem about ADHS is in person social enviroment observe persons behaviour as wrong. Any psychotherapist would not tell Simon that is better to keep her ADHS only for herself.

Eclair · Nov 24, 2017

Baron Vladimir said:
But, i was saying - essential part of therapy with ADHS is that society around person who has it, should know about that. You cant properly help a person with ADHS another way. Because, the biggest problem about ADHS is in person social enviroment observe that persons behaviour as wrong. Any psychotherapist would not tell Simon that is better to keep her ADHS only for herself.

And I'm sure her family, coaches, friends know.

But there is no necessity for internet strangers all around the world to know.

Baron Vladimir · Nov 24, 2017

Eclair said:
And I'm sure her family, coaches, friends know.

But there is no necessity for internet strangers all around the world to know.

Of course that is not necessery. But in her case, there is no reason not to be open about it. That will just help her and society to find out more about people with ADHS and to learn them to observe those as any normal people with a problem. And im sure she will speak freely about that, if there was not a problem that she was treated with banned medicaments cause of that (and dont try to convience me how problem would be in internet trolls, please)... so i hope u understand my point now...and we hijacked this thread long enough...

Alex D · Nov 25, 2017

I ve been thinking of posting a summary of how Anti doping works in Germany, but only if this is something you are interested in. It´s quite heavy what our athletes have to go through, especially if you compare it to other nations where things are not that strict.

luckyguy · Nov 25, 2017

ISU Statement to the IOC sanctions

The reaction is similar to the FIS-decision. Interesting is, that the ISU thinks it is necessary to speak about due process and the basic rule of law in the IOC context.

The IOC’s jurisdiction is restricted to the Olympic Winter Games (OWG) and it is up to the ISU to determine the consequences of the findings of the IOC for the period outside the OWG including all ISU World Cups and Championships.

It must be pointed out that the IOC Disciplinary Commission has not yet issued its motivated decision and indicated this will be done within a reasonable time after the notification of the present decision. The receipt and review of the motivated decision is an essential condition for the ISU to evaluate and decide upon any follow-up action.

Once the IOC Disciplinary Commission has issued its full motivated decision and mindful of the ongoing Speed Skating season, the ISU will undertake the urgent necessary steps within the competence of the ISU.

The ISU herewith confirms that the systematic and regular anti-doping testing for Russian International level Skaters is carried out by international (not Russian) independent sample collection authorities with the analysis of the samples carried out at WADA accredited laboratories outside Russia.

The ISU firmly maintains its position that the protection of clean athletes and the fight against doping are of the highest priority. At the same time, equal treatment and due process must be guaranteed to all athletes within the limits of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules and ISU Anti-Doping Procedures, and the basic rule of law.

karne · Nov 25, 2017

luckyguy said:
ISU Statement to the IOC sanctions

The reaction is similar to the FIS-decision. Interesting is, that the ISU thinks it is necessary to speak about due process and the basic rule of law in the IOC context.

The IOC’s jurisdiction is restricted to the Olympic Winter Games (OWG) and it is up to the ISU to determine the consequences of the findings of the IOC for the period outside the OWG including all ISU World Cups and Championships.

It must be pointed out that the IOC Disciplinary Commission has not yet issued its motivated decision and indicated this will be done within a reasonable time after the notification of the present decision. The receipt and review of the motivated decision is an essential condition for the ISU to evaluate and decide upon any follow-up action.

Once the IOC Disciplinary Commission has issued its full motivated decision and mindful of the ongoing Speed Skating season, the ISU will undertake the urgent necessary steps within the competence of the ISU.

The ISU herewith confirms that the systematic and regular anti-doping testing for Russian International level Skaters is carried out by international (not Russian) independent sample collection authorities with the analysis of the samples carried out at WADA accredited laboratories outside Russia.

The ISU firmly maintains its position that the protection of clean athletes and the fight against doping are of the highest priority. At the same time, equal treatment and due process must be guaranteed to all athletes within the limits of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules and ISU Anti-Doping Procedures, and the basic rule of law.

Oooh, I love that the IOC is basically calling out WADA for the witch-hunt and trial-by-media. :laugh:

karne · Nov 25, 2017

4everchan said:
Yes : Own the podium was created to save us from the Canadian curse.... we wanted to win in Vancouver because we didn't want to host, for the 3rd time, games without having our local hero... however, Own the podium subsidized athletes, not a national doping center.

What is it with the Canadian posters in this thread trying to martyr themselves or make out like an extra funding program is unusual? NEWSFLASH, IT'S NOT. It's a well-studied phenomenon that nearly EVERY host country does. Australia in Sydney. UK in London. The list goes on.

gsk8 · Nov 25, 2017

Last warning: Stop ranting, bickering, and calling out other posters. Stop posting sarcastic and provocative posts and then try to play victim. You all know who you are. Thread closed.

WADA rejects appeals from Russia

gmyers

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

Baron Vladimir

Eclair

Alex D

Baron Vladimir

Eclair

Baron Vladimir

Eclair

Baron Vladimir

Alex D

luckyguy

Match Penalty

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode

gsk8

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