Michael Weiss' "Tornado" Maneuver

SkateFan4Life · Oct 17, 2004

Here's a link from Michael Weiss's official website that shows him executing his "tornado" jump. All I have to say is, with all due respect, given Weiss's history of back and other injuries, why in the world is he risking yet another injury with this ridiculous maneuver? :eek:

Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.michaelweiss.org/twist.shtml

Mathman · Oct 17, 2004

I cringe every time I see it.

But, hey, that's entertainment!

MM

Vash01 · Oct 17, 2004

SkateFan4Life said:
Here's a link from Michael Weiss's official website that shows him executing his "tornado" jump. All I have to say is, with all due respect, given Weiss's history of back and other injuries, why in the world is he risking yet another injury with this ridiculous maneuver?

Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.michaelweiss.org/twist.shtml

Risky, of course, but what has he got to lose? The chances of Weiss winning a world silver or gold are pretty weak. May be doing this new move brings him joy and the audience excitement. I have not actually seen this move, so I cannot comment on what kind of risk may be involved.

soogar · Oct 17, 2004

Well Mike has a strong gymnastics background (his father was on the Olympic team in 1964(?)) and according to Scott Hamilton, a backflip is an easy maneuver. You have to be coordinated and all to do the element, but if you can do it on land, it's relatively easy to do it on ice. There's a guy at my rink who does them all the time (he's a show skater). Of course if you mess up the backflip, you're going to hurt your head on the ice.

Vash01 · Oct 17, 2004

According to Hamilton is is an easy manoever, but if it is so easy, why did the amateur skating competitions ban it? It is definitely a show jump. It seems to get the crowd excited, although I don't much care for it. I assume that only those who have made it into the pros (and therefore are assumed to be old enough to use their judgment) can do it. Actually it makes sense. Many young skaters may not have the sense to decide whether or not their bodies can handle it. With Miachel Weiss's genes (his father was an Olympic level gymnast) I assume he has what it takes, physically and mentally.

Tonichelle · Oct 17, 2004

it's an "easier" jump, but it is still dangerous, and Scott has said that numerous times

and Kurt quit doing the backflip because it bothered his back...

that being said I love Mike's Tornado! very creative and a show stopper too!

PrincessLeppard · Oct 17, 2004

Actually, the move was banned from the amateur ranks because it was believed it couldn't be landed on one foot. So even when Surya proved them wrong, it was still banned.

Erm, that's quite a large signature you've got there, Toni...

Tonichelle · Oct 17, 2004

yeah I know... come monday it'll get smaller... I just had to gloat about my team...

Ladskater · Oct 18, 2004

I remember seeing Scott Hamilton doing one of the first back flips I have ever seen and thinking WOW!! It soon became a move many skaters include in their repertoire. I think it is exciting when skaters invent moves and incorporate them into their programs. Good for Mike Weiss for having the courage to do so.

IDLERACER · Oct 18, 2004

I believe the first skater to do it in competition was Terry Kubika, who landed one at the 1976 Olympics. It caused quite a stir at the time. It wasn't until eight years later that all three of the guys on the 1984 Olympic podium decided to make the backflip their signature move.

dr.frog · Oct 18, 2004

PrincessLeppard said:
Actually, the move was banned from the amateur ranks because it was believed it couldn't be landed on one foot.

That's an urban legend. Back flips were banned because it was seen as an acrobatic or show skating move rather than a skating move. It's the same reason why pairs aren't allowed to do Detroiters or head-bangers in competition.

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 18, 2004

IMO, the back flip is no more acrobatic than the Bielman spin, and much of the trick lifts in Pairs. I would go for the back flip if it is landed on one foot a la Bonaly.

Joe

soogar · Oct 18, 2004

I think they banned it b/c it would have been the start of more acrobatic stunts on ice. We all know how these things evolve. People would start doing backflips and then another competitor will add a twist to get more points and then another person will add two twists to get more points and then so on. Next thing you know skaters will be doing double twisting yurchenkos over the kiss and cry barrier to start / end their programs.

Vash01 · Oct 18, 2004

soogar said:
I think they banned it b/c it would have been the start of more acrobatic stunts on ice. We all know how these things evolve. People would start doing backflips and then another competitor will add a twist to get more points and then another person will add two twists to get more points and then so on. Next thing you know skaters will be doing double twisting yurchenkos over the kiss and cry barrier to start / end their programs.

Very accurate. We have already seen this happen in other areas of skating. Some of the pairs moves/lifts in particular use more acrobatics than skating. Slightly off the topic, we see the acrobatic 'wow' factor in the Chinese pairs, often at the cost of high quality basic skating, spins, and unison. With the back flip they would have had even more opportunity to go away from the basics of skating. I enjoy Surya Bonaly's backflip because she lands it on one foot, but I would not want it to become a part of the eligible skating.

BTW Robin Cousins used to do a great back flip, and that was before Hamilton (I think someone earlier said that the 1984 podium brought it back).

Vash

Joesitz (RIP) · Oct 18, 2004

soogar said:
I think they banned it b/c it would have been the start of more acrobatic stunts on ice. We all know how these things evolve. People would start doing backflips and then another competitor will add a twist to get more points and then another person will add two twists to get more points and then so on. Next thing you know skaters will be doing double twisting yurchenkos over the kiss and cry barrier to start / end their programs.

I think the 'more acrobatic stunts on ice' began several years ago with the Cirque de Soleil moves adapted for figure skating.

Joe

Doggygirl · Oct 18, 2004

Thumbs up for Michael...

I give Michael a lot of credit for his duration in the amateur world, while making a living with skating. More power to him for maintaining credibility as an amateur and keeping up with all that, while also coming up with innovative moves for the show side of his career.

By it's very nature, ice skating is a dangerous sport. One could take a bad step on a crossover and klonk your head on the ice. Michael is a big boy and I trust him to make his own decisions about what moves he can handle with relative safety. Can't wait to see this Tornado move. Now. Can we convince Michael that this move would be equally impressive WITHOUT his belly button showing??? (some things are better left to the imagination IMHO!!)

DG

Grgranny · Oct 18, 2004

Seems as if I remember Robin C did it with straight legs and others bend their knees. :rock:

SkateFan4Life · Oct 27, 2004

Joesitz said:
IMO, the back flip is no more acrobatic than the Bielman spin, and much of the trick lifts in Pairs. I would go for the back flip if it is landed on one foot a la Bonaly.

Joe

I agree! If the Bielmann spin is permissable, then the back flip should be, too, especially if it's landed on one foot. Some of the maneuvers the skaters perform now are quite "acrobatic" in nature, and the back flip isn't any more of a circus move than some of the tricks the other skaters perform.

IMHO, of course.

Michael Weiss' "Tornado" Maneuver

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