Why so many injuries?-Is GP series too long?

I am wondering if we are seeing more injuries because they started the GP series, with each skater entering 2 or 3 competitions before the nationals? Of course the skaters are trying harder things every year. Injuries to skaters are not unusual. Midori Ito had an injury plagued year in 1990-91. Katia Gordeeva missed half a season of competing due to an ankle injury in 1988-89. However, those days those were isolated cases. The rash of injuries we are seeing right now could be a cumulative effect of a long season, the skaters trying to push themselves more, and the years. Although they had something similar to the GP's (SA, SC, Lalique, Cup of nations were always there) but they did not actually have a series and a final (GPF). IIRC the skaters did not have to enter those if they so chose (may be someone can provide insight on this). The requirement of 2 GP's (and the temptation to enter a 3rd one) makes the season very long for a skater. It is good for the fans and the TV, but I am wondering if that may have eventually caused what we are seeing now?

Vash

Injuries

Methinks it is because skaters are no longer required to have the control to do school figures... plus, they no longer split their training time between school figures and other elements.

Sure would be nice if ISU had a study on this.

Linny

Vash01 said:

I am wondering if we are seeing more injuries because they started the GP series,


Vash

Click to expand...

4 - 5 years ago Sandra Loosemore predicted about the insane skating schedule would lead to injuries.

I don't think it's really the question of GP length. Rather, it's (1) as Linny said, not doing figures leads to bad technique and more time spent on ultra difficult elements, and (2) pressure to do so many jumps. Come on, the human body can only take so much!

It will be interesting to see how todays skaters will be physically 20 yrs from now. Will they still be able to skate or will most be hardly able to walk.

A question that's just as relevant is, what (if anything) will ISU, coaches, etc. do to reverse this trend. There must come a point where people realize that this destroying of athletes' health just cannot go on.

I don't think its the GPS that is causing injuries, but the constant attempt to do 3/3s quads, 7triple programs etc.
It seems that this year there are way more injuries than normal at this time of years. I'm wondering if this is a result of CoP. Skaters now know that they can boost their scores by X number of points by doing 3/3's, and skaters who dont have the best presentation know exactly how many jumps they can do to make up the points deficency. I think that makes skaters more willing to try the harder jumps.

Exactly, Brave......it's expecting too much of your body at a young age. These triple-triple-triple tricks and quad this and quad that are ridiculous. Our brightest skaters are being injured, some beyond repair. Enough is enough!!! 42

Add Lysacek to the list, but he is skating with a fracture

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49631-2004Oct20.html

gezando said:

Add Lysacek to the list, but he is skating with a fracture

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49631-2004Oct20.html

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:banging: :banging: :banging:

Now there's a smart move. :sheesh: Let it heal! Let it heal! Let it heal! :agree:

I was going to start a topic about bringing back the figures and focusing less on jumps. In the past when figures were a major part of figure skating and competitions, skaters did still incur injuries, but not on such a scale as we see today. The number of competitions were less and the rotations in the air were not as many. As one member pointed out, "the human body can only take so much." It's getting ridiculous!

As the jump requirements increase in difficulty and skaters are training more intensely, injury is bound to happen. Skaters must learn to pace themselves. Also skaters are remaining in eligible competition longer than they used to.

Would the return of figures help? It's hard to say. Fans have come to expect more and more difficulty in the jumps and spins and to watch skaters "push the envelope." Even the skaters themselves strive to increase difficult elements all in the name of competition.

It's going to be an interesting season, indeed.

I don't think it's just the jumps that are the problem.

Many skaters are poring over the CoP technical details, looking for ways to add difficulty to their programs (aside from jumps). So many have been experimenting with unusual entrances into jumps, complex spins, multiple changes of position on spirals, intricate footwork with lightning fast changes of direction, etc.

All of these new moves and innovations are putting stress on parts of the body that have never felt that stress before. It isn't surprising that there are so many injuries of all kinds.

Remembering comments on boots from last year...

I believe it was RGirl (my apologies if I'm crediting the wrong person) who raised some very logical (IMO) points last year about the equipment not keeping pace with the ever increasing difficulty of the moves. This conversation came up while Tim was having so many boot problems. I would hope the USFSA and ISU are promoting appropriate research to make sure the equipment (boots) support the highest end of allowed program elements to the greatest degree possible.

I too wonder how the abandonment of school figures may be impacting the "fundamentals" that need to be there as a foundation, making the more difficult moves as safe as possible.

The FS organizations really should be researching the whole issue of injuries. I don't think the answer is to shorten the season or number of events, but to determine limits of safety with the number of jumps allowed in a program, etc. The COP offers a good vehicle to do that. If well done research (not just speculation) suggests that further limits should be placed on quads, etc. then implement new limits. The skaters would then be prompted to focus on other areas of artistry and creativity to maximize scores.

Just my 2 cents....

DG

About boots and injuries, the last issue of Blades on Ice features a fascinating interview with George Spiteri, maker of SP-teri boots. (He is the son of the founder Joseph Spiteri.) Spiteri, too, puts at least part of the blame on the demise of figures.

"What helped the sport for a long time was that skaters had to do figures, so they couldn't move up to a higher level till they passed a figures test. That kept the younger kids from doing the harder jumps. Since the elimination of figures, whatever jumps you can do, you do.

"You have 10, 11, 12-year-olds all doing double Axels and working on triples. The stress on the equipment and on the bodies is a lot greater than it was in the 70s and 80s."

Spiteri says that the catch twenty-two is that the boots have to be made stiffer and stiffer to withstand the force of impact and give skaters control on the landings of their jumps. But stiffer boots mean more injuries. If the boots are too stiff, the ankle and knees can't bend, and in turn, the hip and the back take the brunt of the shock.

"We all wish we had a magic way to reduce injuries. People set their goals in terms of the jumps they land and the competitions they win, not on the amount of time they're injury-free. We could develop a more flexible boot to minimize injuries, but skaters and coaches want to perform harder and harder jumps to win.

"Those two factors oppose each other. You can't do both. It's like you want to go swimming but you don't want to get your hair wet."

About the experimental hinged boot, Spiteri says that does not address the problem. Any attempt, by whatever "outlandish" means (the word of the interviewer, Monica Friedlander), to make the boot more flexible necessarily compromises the ability to land the jumps -- thus paradoxically leading to even more injuries "because now you're messing up your hip or tail bone because you're falling more."

Plus, there is the esthetic issue: Boots must be nice looking, "allowing skaters to look elegant and make at least a feeble attempt at pointing their toes."

Mathman

thats a very good point about the boots not allowing the ankle to move.

When I was playing hockey I always had my ankles strapped because they are quiteweek and prone to twisting. A couple of years ago I suffered a very bad sprained ankle during a match and couldn't walk for a couple of weeks after. When I went for physiotherapy the therapist put me through a battery of tests and came to the conclusion that all the seasons of strapping my ankle to support it had caused my whole leg to suffer - my knee and hip had both started to over compensate and instead of getting physio on a damaged ankle, I ended up having quite serious physio on my whole leg!

Thoughts on this related to COP...

One of the themes in this thread was a discussion about the demise of school figures, and the speculation that a move away from sound fundamentals might be contributing to the injury problem.

Will the COP system help rectify that, if indeed it's a contributing factor??

I'm speculating that more specific reward in the judging for excellence in basic skating skills might return some of the focus to fundamentals. (I hope) If that turns out to be the case, might we see less injury once COP is in place long enough to *force the issue* on a broader range of fundamental skills - not just jumps?

Any opinions??

DG

I don't think so. You still need to rack up the points on the tech side, as well as not neglecting presentation, just like under 6.0 judging. Plus, Michelle reportedly hurt her back, not by working on more jumps, but by trying to bring her layback spin up to snuff for a level three CoP designation.

I also don't think limiting the number of jumps would help. Even if you do just one triple jump in your program, you still have to practice it a few thousand times.

I still think there is potential in more research into boot manufacture. George Spiteri may be pessimistic -- he says, either soft boot/no jump or stiff boot/bye-bye hip joints -- but the ISU and the member federations could mandate certain specifications for boot design, even if the skaters felt that they are being held back.

Like in hockey a few years ago, when the players were forced to wear helmets. The players didn't want to -- only a sissy would wear a helmet as his head is being driven into the ice -- but the NHL said, that's how it's going to be.

Or football. Football players could run faster, make more acrobatic catches, etc., if they didn't have to wear pads. But they do, and it's accepted as part of the sport.

JMO.

Mathman

Alright Mathman...GO ahead and DASH my HOPES!!!



You make excellent points as always.

On Michelle's back. I understand she started having back problems in 2001 or something like that? (might be wrong on the year, but I think it's been awhile)

Does anyone recall how this back problem originally started? Or was it ever reported how it started? The reason I ask this is that I have lower back problems, and had surgery on a disk two years ago. There was never a "defining moment" when the problem started (i.e. no particular move or lift or fall where it went "out"). The docs don't even know.

What I DO know is that I have to be careful with my back for the rest of my life. Now I don't keep up with physical therapy and so forth like an intelligent athlete would (or an intelligent regular person for that matter) but it will always be a "risk" spot for problems.

That's why I can understand that if Michelle is having some back pain, laybacks could absolutely contribute. I'm just wondering if that's the cause.

DG

I welcome a correction if I am wrong, but as far as I know there was not any one particular incident that has caused Michelle minor back problems at various times. Michelle herself has said that she does not have great natural flexibilty, so she has had to work like the devil on stretching exercises throughout her career. I can only imagine that this takes a toll after ten years of putting unnatural stress on your body and bending it in ways that it doesn't want to go.

But on the other hand, Sasha is blessed with natural flexibility, and she has had more severe back problems than Michelle.(?)

Backs are tricky. I can hurt my back just rolling over in bed, and I'm no good for a week.

MM

LOL Mathman...

OK, I admit it. It's Saturday afternoon, and I'm doing laundry and making shopping lists between Icecalc updates. So yes, that is my excuse for having a cocktail in hand already.

That being said, how old are you again?? I'm definitely middle aged, and knowing my own back issues, imagining antics and tossing and turning in bed just aren't that attractive anymore. Some things really are better left to imagination!!

(PLEASE tell me you can take a joke!!)



DG