Men's short program

Mathman · Oct 22, 2004

1 Brian JOUBERT FRA 72.10 1
2 Michael WEISS USA 64.82 2
3 Roman SEROV ISR 62.24 3
4 Ryan JAHNKE USA 60.83 4
5 Evan LYSACEK USA 54.87 5
6 Nicholas YOUNG CAN 52.60 6
7 Ben FERREIRA CAN 51.33 7
8 Vakhtang MURVANIDZE GEO 51.22 8
9 Lun SONG CHN 51.08 9
10 Alexander SHUBIN RUS 47.08 10
11 Stefan LINDEMANN GER 44.99 11

What happened to Lindemann?

Good on Lysacek!

Evdokia · Oct 22, 2004

Mathman - you were faster than me! :laugh:

Here is the icecalc-link with detailed scores:
http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa04/SEG001.HTM

Shubin's placement makes me

Ximena · Oct 22, 2004

oh Lindemman!

to fall in all the jumps, what a disaster.
Shubin

And Jahnke TCS scores are a total joke, Jahnke is being robbed big time.

chuckm · Oct 22, 2004

Lindemann skated horribly in the GP last season, too. He was 9th of 10 at Skate America and 11th (and last) at Lalique. Yet later in the season, he finished 5th at Euros and won World bronze.

Seems Stefan's training is geared to have him peak for the most important competitions, and he doesn't view the GP as that important.

herios · Oct 22, 2004

Lindemman

Ximena said:
oh Lindemman! to fall in all the jumps, what a disaster.
Shubin
And Jahnke TCS scores are a total joke, Jahnke is being robbed big time.

Actually, Stefan didn't fell on all his jumps: He fell hard on the quad, then in air he opened up the 3 axel, into a double, but he sort of landed hesitantly, overrotating the double axel, and stumbled out, then he did only a double lutz......

Shubin did a 1 axel, then a triple toe / triple toe combo and a 2 flip....with this technical content, no surprise he finished so low.

Ryan got deducted 1 point, was not able to figure out why.

My impression, the second set of mark still is more or less based on reputation, maybe to a less extent like last year, but, there is a lot of subjectivity going on.

Herios - Joseph

Kasey · Oct 22, 2004

But congrats to Roman Serov, who came out of nowhere and had a nice, clean program. It was nice to see the lesser ranked, lesser known skaters that I'd never seen before....Murvanidze (sp?) has a nice style, as does nicholas Young from Canada. Joubert was clearly the leader of the field, although Weiss did well except for the quad combo. I saw Jahnke's deduction, I don't think he went over on the time (a pretty common deduction last night, for men and pairs). Maybe he failed to do some element....He does have a lot of spark in his skating, which I think Joubert could use. It's a shame that Griazev couldn't compete....even without a quad, or a failed quad, he would have been third or fourth here.

Kasey

Ptichka · Oct 22, 2004

Bummer for Lysacek.

As to Lindemann -- I think his (apparently deserved) low placement is one of the benefits of CoP. I think under the old system the judges would have tended to pull up the marks of a reigning World bronze medalist who attempted more difficult jumps than many others.

Evdokia · Oct 22, 2004

Kasey said:
But congrats to Roman Serov, who came out of nowhere and had a nice, clean program.

Serov placed 4th at 2001/02 Russian Nats and he might have competed at Nagano Worlds in 2002 if Plush had withdrawn earlier. As far as I remember he also placed Top 6 at Russian Nationals the three years before the Olympic season and and he also already had quite good placements in some GP events in the past. - He only had to sit out the entire last season due to change of citizenship. I think it's not so much like he is coming out of nowhere, but with the strong competition in the Russian men's field he just didn't have a chance to compete at major events like Worlds or Euros up to now.

Kasey · Oct 22, 2004

Evdokia....

He came out of nowhere for me!

lol, but it was very nice to see. I like his style, he has clean lines...not quite the difficulty as some, but what he did was good technique and clean.

Kasey

shine · Oct 22, 2004

I totally give up on wanting those judges to give Jahnke the PC marks he deserves. All I know is that I would absolutely hate to be a skater like him and get marked like this.

Mathman · Oct 22, 2004

I keep hoping for Murvanidze to catch fire. He is such a crowd pleaser. I think he has a great future as a show skater in the style of Candeloro. But he has not really advanced up the ranks for quite a while now.

mpal2 · Oct 22, 2004

herios said:
Ryan got deducted 1 point, was not able to figure out why.

If a skater falls, there is a required point deduction in the former "presentation" scores. I think it was supposed to be taken last year but judges "forgot" to put it in. I think it is now programmed in the computer so you will always see a deduction with a fall.

herios · Oct 23, 2004

deduction

mpal2 said:
If a skater falls, there is a required point deduction in the former "presentation" scores. I think it was supposed to be taken last year but judges "forgot" to put it in. I think it is now programmed in the computer so you will always see a deduction with a fall.

Yeah, I saw today...yesterday I didn't notice for the others, as I was busy writing my notes, and I didn't look up on the display, except for Ryan... Indeed they deduct now, religiously for falls.

Herios - Joseph

Doggygirl · Oct 23, 2004

Hmmm....

Does anyone know for sure if Joubert fell on his 4T? (that's what a report said on FS Universe). That's what made me wonder about the deduction, because on Ice Calc a deduction was not shown. It wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome, I'm just curious.

DG

herios · Oct 23, 2004

Joubert

Doggygirl said:
Does anyone know for sure if Joubert fell on his 4T? (that's what a report said on FS Universe). That's what made me wonder about the deduction, because on Ice Calc a deduction was not shown. It wouldn't have made a difference to the outcome, I'm just curious.

DG

Yes he did. And they didn't deduct??? Well, the technical referee was asleep or tired in this case.

Herios - Joseph

dr.frog · Oct 23, 2004

It's my understanding that a fall only counts as a fall for the purposes of the required deduction under CoP if both feet leave the ice and the skater lands on some other part of the body. I've seen cases where a skater did everything *but* that, like flipped out in a lunge with both hands on the ice as well as one knee.... but still keeping one blade in contact with the ice.

Doggygirl · Oct 23, 2004

That probably splains it...

I'm sure we will all get a better feel for this stuff once we can record stuff on TV. But Dr. Frog, that would make sense assuming Joubert managed to keep one blade on the ice.

DG

Mathman · Oct 23, 2004

Dr. Frog, thanks for sharing your expertise on the CoP. Your posts are very useful.

Men's short program

Mathman

Evdokia

Ximena

chuckm

herios

Kasey

Ptichka

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Evdokia

Kasey

shine

Mathman

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herios

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