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President

Who do you believe would be a better President for our country?


  • Total voters
    109

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Well Jill, as someone suffering from potentially fatal autuimmune disorder that could very likely have had a cure by now if stem cell research had not been slowed down by Bush excuse me for not joining your celebration. As someone who has always followed all the rules, worked my *** off to put myself through college only to have my career cut short due to illness and now find that due to laws passed by the Bush administration my employer can drop me from my health insurance and guess what.... medicare doesn't cover s***. That new drug plan the Republicans are patting themselves on the back for, well it's useless as it doesn't cover generics for lots of drugs and alot of drugs it doesn't cover at all.. Therefore the drug plan costs me not only the premium, the deductible, the co-pay and for a prescription that the generic is $25.00 for 84 tablets with the Republicans wonder plan, besides all of the fees, I have to pay $90.00 for 25 tablets!

Maybe you don't remember the 50's and 60's before Roe vs. Wade? Women were left at best sterile but more often maimed and bleedi, sometimes to death, from undergoing back alley abortions because the government felt it was their job to decide who should be forced to bear children. I pray you or someone you love is never a victim of rape or incest and will never have to go through the additional rape by the judicial system of having to "prove your case" in the courts before you would be allowed to terminate such a pregnancy.

Maybe you don't remember the conditions a lot of our citizens lived in before President Johnson inacted social reform? Yes, back in the "good old days" when there was none or very limited public housing, no nutrition programs for the poor, no educational assistance for childtren from low income families, the only children who even went to kindergarden did so through private schools. The poor and minorities(including women) were treated with little respect and had little chance of bettering themselves.

Pray that your health doesn't fail and that your employer doesn't downsize or ship your job overseas,
 

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I'll have to agree with Piel. Sure never considered myself a liberal. I have a bunch of auto-immune diseases too but I am really lucky that my husband's pension furnished a lot of stuff I would never have. My health insurance may be a little much but considering what it does it is worth it. I take around 30 pills a day. Of course, that includes the calcium, etc. And I don't know why anyone wants to put guns in the hand of criminals and why anyone should even have machine guns. I have no problem with the average people having guns or even hunters and no one ever suggested hunters not having guns. It shouldn't be any problem for anyone to have their background checked. That's about all the law was considered to do. I don't want to get started a debate about guns so I will just let it go at that and say that I really don't like my country being controlled by the NRA.
 

LilyBerg

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Good question, Mathman. The reason could have something to with the fact that we are winning this war. Incidentally, I don't remember any big protests over sending troops to Bosnia.

I don't agree on that. The fight against terrorism will go on forever, unless the mentality of OUR people change. Terror is so much more than suicide bombers, and we should know it by now.

Let the planet earth adapt to itself.

This remark is the weirdest I have ever heard. How is she supposed to do that when we are the reason why she cannot?

We believe that each new life is a blessing and possible genius, not a burden that society must feed, cloth, and educate, or a choice to be eliminated.

In some ways I can understand that, but I believe that every man and woman on this earth is totally capable to decide this themselves. The state has no right to eliminate choices, and if it does it's not a democracy.

NathalieƩ
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Bush started this war in Iraq. I don't want to hear about 9/11, I live in it. Iraq had nothing whatsoever with 9/11.

Bush sent our boys to Iraq before we could support such a move to stop a madman who had no weapons of mass destruction. This is fact and this is sad for every one who lost a loved one in a dumb war. Yet they want us to support their deaths. Yeah.

I am against any American dying for this war in Iraq. Americans should have been chasing Osama not Saddam. Instead we get an influx of terrorists in Iraq because of this dumb war. The terrorists now have the perfect training grounds to practice their terror. We can thank Bush for this. I see more chaos in the future and need to reenact the draft, and there will be no deferments.

Actually, I foresaw this anyway and I don't believe Kerrey could have undone the damage that Bush had created.

Let's not get into social security, taxes, job loss, and health care. You know what's going to happen. But we stopped same sex couples from getting married. Wow, that really is a biggy. Those people would have brought the country down. Those people should start getting guns and start killing. That's what America is all about.

Joe
 

treeskater

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
While I had mixed feelings about Kerry, the results (more of Bush) really disturbed me. All I could think of was a book by Coleen McCullough back in the early 80's called "A Creed for the Third Millenium" and the results of alienating other world countries out of our arrogance, and the religious fervor of the lead character thinking himself the next JC.

I firmly believe in separation of church and state and I fear for the future and the impact of the religious on our society. We are going to go backwards morally and the witch hunts are going to start again. People who do not have the same faith as Bush and his followers are going to find themselves constricted. You might as well bring back the Puritans and the burnings at the stake. Is Bush starting his own 'Holy War?'

Women's rights that took so long to attain are going to be taken away, big business will grow more greedy, China will take the lead as a world power, Israel will be destroyed, history will just keep repeating itself, the money powers will take over everywhere, terriorists will strike our shores yet again.

I am just plain angry and depressed to think about the next 4 years. Now more than ever I am glad I made the decision not to have children.
 

Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Maybe you don't remember the conditions a lot of our citizens lived in before President Johnson inacted social reform? Yes, back in the "good old days" when there was none or very limited public housing, no nutrition programs for the poor, no educational assistance for childtren from low income families, the only children who even went to kindergarden did so through private schools. The poor and minorities(including women) were treated with little respect and had little chance of bettering themselves.

Yes, I do remember what it was like. There are and always will be poor among us. I realize that there will always be people who, through no fault of their own, just never seem to get a break. What I don't remember is our cities being the war zones that they have become due to failed social programs that reward people for making bad choices.

Pray that your health doesn't fail and that your employer doesn't downsize or ship your job overseas.

I can certainly empathize with you and your illness. However, I have quite a few health problems of my own, and have been admitted to the hospital four times this year alone. I have been using holistic medicines and supplements that no insurance will cover. I make a little more than minimum wage at my job, and my husband works two jobs. Do I like it, hell no! Is it fair, hell no, but life isn't always fair. And there's an old saying, Pay the doctor, or pay the undertaker. Who knows how many cures might've been discovered if they hadn't been aborted first. Oh, that's right, it's just a choice.

For the record, I'm not out for a fight. You all seem like great people. I just thought you'd like to hear from the other side.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
And Jill - Pray that you do not get a catastrophic illness which will have limited coverage on any medical plan you have if it has that. Alzheimer's is becoming an epidemic. The number of parapalegics and other spinal cord injuries of GIs coming back from Iraq is a huge burden already on the VA hospitals and there is thought of closing the VA hospitals down. We've got to save money to pay for the tax breaks which will speed the economy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe
 

Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Why is it that you all feel it's up to the government to cure all ailments? Maybe if rich Democrats like George Soros would donate some of his millions to medical research there would be more solutions.

Tax breaks might give poor Republicans like me more money to invest, and thereby decrease the burden on programs like Medicare-which is going broke.

Oh, and by the way, How Long is a Chinaman. How Long is his name. For those of you who are the product of outcomes based education, those are periods, not question marks. The guy's name is How Long. Now what were you thinking?
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
JillLaQ said:
Why is it that you all feel it's up to the government to cure all ailments?

Because when starvation becomes obvious so does revolution. Think Latin America; think France; think Russia. Think! Rather than having peasants 'eat cake', let them be able to work and earn a living. l Governments do just that, and why not America? Letting blacks into college. Would this have happened if the Governemtn didn't order it. etc., etc., etc.,

Joe
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
JillLaQ said:
,

5. How long is a Chinaman. I'm sure there is a plan. Now, quit whining about how long and get behind the troops.

Oh, and by the way, How Long is a Chinaman. How Long is his name. For those of you who are the product of outcomes based education, those are periods, not question marks. The guy's name is How Long. Now what were you thinking?

We were thinking that you didn't capitalize the "L" in Mr. Long's last name and that "Chinaman" is a racist term.

I'm sure Mr. Long would prefer to be called Chinese.


http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=f0c323506371c5bfc7e633e52595e9cf

Tax breaks for the middle class and especially the poor(even Republicans :biggrin: ) are fine. It's the tax breaks for the rich that I have a problem with.

The reason that government programs are needed is because while far from perfect they are a hell of a lot better than the alternative. Anyone who thinks that religious groups and charitable organizations can take the place of government programs has been brainwashed by the Bushies. Those groups will only help those like themselves or that they agree with. Most religious and charitable groups are barely self supporting as it is. I happen to think it is the government's job to help those who can't help themselves. If the money spent on the war in Iraq had been used for social programs here at home there could be a lot more folks going to bed this winter in warm homes with full stomachs, and maybe a little peace of mind knowing that they didn't have to choose between food and medicine and that if they need health care it will be affordable and available to them.

Those in the top income brackets quality of life and well being is not effected by having to pay more taxes. On the other hand when social programs are cut the quality of life is is greatly changed for those effected. Isn't the quality of life for ALL of it's citizens what a country should be all about?
 
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Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Piel said:
We were thinking that you didn't capitalize the "L" in Mr. Long's last name and that "Chinaman" is a racist term.

I'm sure Mr. Long would prefer to be called Chinese.


http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=f0c323506371c5bfc7e633e52595e9cf
My husband is Chinese, and he doesn't care, so why should you? He knows socialism/commnunism when he sees it and that's why he now lives here and calls himself and American man.

Why wouldn't Blacks be admitted into college if they make the grades?
 

Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Joesitz said:
Because when starvation becomes obvious so does revolution. Think Latin America; think France; think Russia. Think! Rather than having peasants 'eat cake', let them be able to work and earn a living. l Governments do just that, and why not America? Letting blacks into college. Would this have happened if the Governemtn didn't order it. etc., etc., etc.,

Joe

Revolution, huh? Bring it on!!! By the way, can anyone here recall a time in recent history when thousands of old people here in the US died of a heat wave the way they did in France a few summers ago? They actually died, waiting for the government to buy them air conditioners! Another well known government program was the holocaust.

With all the talk of Right Wing Religious fanaticism, I can't think of one instance where religion is forced on anyone. I can, however, think of lots of liberalism that is forced on us.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
My husband is Chinese, and he doesn't care, so why should you?

Ughm... because there are others who do care?

Golden Skate Guidelines for posters are pretty clear on this.....

Posts that support or espouse hatred towards another individual or group based upon any criteria (including race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, beliefs, etc.)
 

Jill

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Oh, and lest I forget, the Affirmative Action laws of the 60s where passed by Republicans; Democrats fought it tooth and nail. Look it up.
 

Piel

On Edge
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Referring to the holocaust as a government program that went wrong is a little insesitive, don't you think? The holocaust was evil that came from from an evil racist who thought the world was only for people just like him. One of the goals of liberalism is so racist/religious nutcases like that aren't given the power to repeat those atrocities.
 

milanessa

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Piel said:
Ughm... because there are others who do care?

Golden Skate Guidelines for posters are pretty clear on this.....

I doubt she hates her husband and her post didn't advocate hatred toward any of those.

Piel said:
Referring to the holocaust as a government program that went wrong is a little insesitive, don't you think? The holocaust was evil that came from from an evil racist who thought the world was only for people just like him. One of the goals of liberalism is so racist/religious nutcases like that aren't given the power to repeat those atrocities.

I searched but can't find the quote. The holocaust was ugly but it, also, was a government program. Can someone point me to the other part? (Holocaust as a government problem that went wrong.)

gerry
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
JillLaQ said:
With all the talk of Right Wing Religious fanaticism, I can't think of one instance where religion is forced on anyone. I can, however, think of lots of liberalism that is forced on us.

Just wait Jill - Give it time. We have to set up an inquisition process. Believe or die. It's coming, and we can say we are doing god's work.

Joe
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
JillLaQ said:
Incidentally, I don't remember any big protests over sending troops to Bosnia.
Actually, there were big European protests about us NOT sending troops into Bosnia. Personally, I do not think it's important what the world think of us, but I do not believe we should have antagonized other nations as we did. Calling France and Germany "irrelevant" was probably not the bightest thing to do. Though the reasons I am against this war have nothing to do with international lack of support.

2. Social Security is and has been going broke ever since LBJ raided it to fund his Great Society programs in the 60s.
Everyone agrees that the current system is far from perfect. However, Stock Market is just not the answer.

Tax cuts benefit the people who pay taxes. I don't know how many poor guys sign paychecks, but as long as the rich are making money, they are going to be hiring people and spending their money on new homes, new cars, new boats, etc.
The problem in the US today is NOT that the rich don't have enough money to invest. Today we have the biggest income gap since the 1920's. To me, that says that the government needs to put in programs to lessen this. For example, I do not understand how Bush could have cut after school programs! Those programs are a tool the society uses to give certain stratas of population a lef up, to help them succeed. Cutting them will produce more problems in the future. There are countries in the world where the rich are getting richer, but the poor remain ever poor. I wouldn't want to live there. I'd rather be in middle class here than in upper class in Saudi Arabia.

This war is every bit as important and necessary as WWII.
Iraq did not attack US.

I'm sure there is a plan. Now, quit whining about how long and get behind the troops.
Want to let us in on it? The administration admitted that things did not go the way it planned (according to Bush, Iraqis gave up much too fast). Why then should I believe they know what they're doing now?

Let the planet earth adapt to itself.
:confused:

Anyone who does those crimes should be prosecuted, I agree.
That's not enough. Laws have to be enforced to prevent the abuses that lead to such tragedies.

8. How you spend is all personal responsibility, just one more thing that my generation seems to know nothing about.
Hmmm, you realize of course that you have just agreed with MathMan here?

Extreme radical conservatives??? Surely you jest! We are the main stream. The Democratic party has been hi-jacked by cultural Marxists and is so far to the left that I doubt any of you even eat on the right side of your plate.
I feel I must respond to this. I grew up in USSR, and I can spot the reminders of it right a way. To me, the Patriot Act smacks so much of USSR it's scary. The attempt to regulate a woman's medical choices is. And so, unfortunately, is the belief that we can impose our moral and cultural values on others.

We believe the job should go to the best man/woman qualified, and we believe that freedom is the solution for the human condition, not government programs and quotas.
I wish it were so simple. While I do not support racial quotas, I support socio economic ones. Take two high school students -- one goes to an excellent suburban school, gets a huge SAT score, and is in, say in the top 30% of his class. Another goes to an inner city school is no support for anything but the most basic learning, get a low SAT score, and is in the top 5% of his class. Which one should be admitted to college?

We believe that each new life is a blessing and possible genius, not a burden that society must feed, cloth, and educate, or a choice to be eliminated.
That sounds really beautiful. Now put yourself in a position of a pregnant 16 year old. I guarantee you that if she cannot have a legal abortion (assuming she want to terminate her pregnancy), she will find a way to have an illegal one. She may die. I'd rather she didn't.

We believe in the right to bear arms to defend our homes and loved ones, as well as our way of life.
Noone is trying to take that away from you. No Democrat has even hinted at overturning the second ammendment. The attempts have concentrated on keeping track of every weapon as to know where it's at, and at keeping arms away from "the bad guys".

God bless America, our troops
Hard to disagree :)

and our Commander in Chief
Here, I find most appropriate the Jewish prayer asking G-d to grant our leaders wisdom and understanding, and to open their minds. I can honestly pray that prayer today.
 
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