Ladies Free - Notes & Results | Golden Skate

Ladies Free - Notes & Results

Rosaleen

Medalist
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Disclaimer: Info below is copyrighted to Golden Skate so please don't copy & paste into other forums, newsgroups, mailing lists, and/or articles.

Thanks so much!

As usual, the skaters are shown in the order they skated and the placements are the placements at the time they skated. Marks are shown as Tech, Components and total

SVK Zuzana Babiakova Start 1 Place 1
Notes white with red bolereo & apron / circus world / music starts off fairly medodic / 2a may have brushed foot on way by / 3z hand down 2t / cam spin is ok / music changes to circusy & she plays to it / 3f / travel 3s into 2l / flycam is good / nice 3l / spiral seq is ok / sit ch sit to inside edge / travel 3s into 2t / 2s1t / strt ftwrk is very fast & with music / combo spin to end is sustained and fast & centered / there were times when the circus theme came out but much of the time it was background /
t 33.82 c 35.76 tot 69.58 gr tot 103.52

SWE Lina Johansson Start 2 Place 1
Notes romoeo & juliet but sheet says otonal / royal blue with with silver / 3t had it then fell / 3f turnout / flycam has very good speed & pos to catchfoot / 3l / combo spin that I didn't see?? / 2z / 2a / spirals show good control / 3f 3turns out / 3s / O ftwrk is a bit slow goes with music / layback spin is ok / combo spin cam sit ch sit to Y / it was a pleasant program - nothing really special but at the same time it went by quite quickly - didn't bore me /
t 39.90 c 37.52 tot 76.42 gr tot 118.80

GBR Jenna McCorkell Start 3 Place 1
Notes white with black trim / swan lake / 2a is nice & high / 3z nice & clean / 3t2t / 3f fell no check landed weird on her wrist with a big owww mouthed by her / 3l / layback is ok / strt steps also are ok / 3f tiht on landing 2t / missed something in there /spirals / 3s hand down/ combo spin into back cam donut to end / The 1st part of the program didn't seem to have much chor - a lot of skating from one end of the rink to the other with jumps at each end- it improved in the last 3rd /
t 43..92 c 40.72 tot 83.64 gr tot 123.24

JPN Yukari Nakano Start 4 Place 3
Notes white / beatles medley / 3a under fell / 3f clean huge wrap / cam ch cam to sinside edge fast, pos could be better / 2z fell really slow off ice / combo spin is ok / spirals are soso / 3s2t / 3t2t2l / 2a / flycam in very nice pos with arms extended / the music is almost just background / O ftwrk is very difficult only changes feet 3 times 1/3 on each foot /
t 37.54 c 40.56 tot 76.10 gr tot 113.68

CAN Lesley Hawker Start 5 Place 3
Notes madame butterfly / navy velvet with sheer & white trim / some chor to set a sombre mood / 3z stepout / she's moving very slow / 2a speed is better now / 3f fell out / flycam is very nice with layover & good speed / loop didn't get off ice / spirals are ok / 3z bad lean & fell / strt leg layback / butterfly into back sit almost lost it on landing but got it back / 3t2t / diag ftwrk is on one foot for 1st half / inz into 3s / her jumps are all a bit jerky like she's stiff legged or her timing is just off that bit /
t 37.82 c 35.44 tot 72.26 gr tot 118.10

CAN Mira Leung Start 6 Place 1
Notes black velvet with x straps in back red on bottom of skirt / music starts out very soft then clashes into familiarstrains of firebird / 3f2l / 3z / 2a very slow into but clean / flycam to donut / 3s almost turnout / layback classic to strt leg / 3z2l fellon loop / 3t / upright spin with leg in front / strt ftwrk is good & fairly complex / music builds and she's into her spirals which are great inside out to fan to charolote / 3f / combo spin ending with beillmans on both feet / very good skate /
t 47.10 c

HUN Julia Sebestyen Start 7 Place 1
Notes Carmen / black & orange - military down one side, lacey down other / 3s is perfect / 3z hand down fell out / travel 3s into 3l bit unsteady on landing but clean / flycam to donut / speed up as music does into 3f turns into 2t / layback that I didn't really see / 2a / spirals play well to music but are a bit slow / big 2z / 3t didn't check and fell / combo spin ending in beillman / S ftwrk is detailed / final spin is slow & a bit jerky / this was not her performance /
t 36.20 c 46.88 tot 82.08 gr tot 132.74

JPN Fumie Suguri Start 8 Place 1
Notes tango ara percusion, Carmen / black open back lacey effect / 3z2t not a sound from blades right through the combo / popped flip / 3s stumbled out under rot possibly to double / spirals start with inside out / 3l under 2ft / I just missed a spin right in front of me / butterfly to sit / 3z / music speed up 3f2t not sure about landing on flip too close to boaards in front of me / 2a / strt ftwrk is god & with music / don't know if it's because of the errors but I couldn't really get into the program it didn't do a lot for me and I really lke Fumie so wanted to really like the program - maybe I need to see it without the errors /
t 42.12 c

ITA Carolina Kostner Start 9 Place 2
Notes mauve with shreded hem on skirt / Piano concerto #1 3 by prokofiev / 2f3t / 2z2t step out on toe / travel 3s into 2l / S ftwrk is very fast & with music - she just flies / flying sit is very slow & pos is weak / some chor & playing to music / spirals are inventive and very few steps etween them / 2z / 3s / combo spin sit with variations to back cam / cam spin one direction then combo spin starting with cam in other direction / 2a 2a landed pitched forward but clean / that program went on forever didn't hold my interest at all / t 37.36 c 50.72 tot

JPN Yoshie Onda Start 10 Place 1
Notes White Landscapes Op 47 by Yoshimatsu / back sading to grey diagonally with pink flowers in diag patter / gorgeous / huge 3z2t / high 2a turns 3t / 3f possible hand down very tight on landing far end of rink not sure / layback spin is fast but soso pos at start / 2s twisted on landing / 3l / combo spin is fast cam sit back cam sit / she isn't quite as expressive as she was in the short /3f2t / flycam to inside edge / music changes & speeds up / 3z / spirals - now she's smiling & showing some emotion / didn't really see O ftwrk wellenough to comment / combo spin to end is good /
t 49.22 c 50.16 tot 99.38 gr tot 151.54

CAN Cynthia Phaneuf Start 11 Place 1
Notes capriccio espagnol / white with black design / some chor to set mood / 3z turns 3t / 3f bit shakey on landing but fought forit / 2a / flycam could use more fly but spin is good into illusions / some chor to slower section & spanish feel / speeding up into 3z fell / layback with foot to head / more chor and it's got a real edge to it / 3l bit unsteady but clean / 3s fell / spirals are ok / 3t fought for it 2t / cam spin / diag ftwrk is very fast not sure about difficulty / very fast combo spin to end /
t 48.30 c 55.60 tot 101.90 ded 2.00 gr tot 159.66

FIN Susanna Poykio Start 12 Place 3
Notes light yellow sparkly / romeo & juliet by rota / 3t2t / 3z2t / 3s turnout / combo spin cam sit Y back cam catchfoot upright / music softens to 'a time for us' and we have some chor to match / layback with foot to head / 3f / popped loop / O ftwrk is set to lyrical part and matches / 2a / flycam with pos variations / 3t / spirals with inside out to start / butterfly back sit to Y /
t 45.84 c 53.12 tot 98.96 gr tot 148.94
 

tukinowaguma

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Thanks,Rosaleen.Congratulations,Yoshie. I am proud of you. I watched at the movies of Cynthia, Onda, and Suguri. And I understood the reason why Cynthia won. . the program was well balanced and her presentation skills were better than Yoshie.

However, lack of the pliability of Cynthia's knee worried me. and I
think that Suguri's SS was better than Cynthia.
 
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qoo

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Thank you very much for the review as usual. I don't know if Yoshie deserves this one(maybe Poykio does) or not.. but I would not like to see someone getting the highest score with 2 falls. Does this mean a skater with many falls can end up being the Olympic champion? I don't like this system at all.... :sheesh:
 
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lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
There's some positives but there's just too many things to not like about this system. It's just not as exciting to me anymore.
 

SailorGalaxia518

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Well ...............................all I got to say is that Cynthia Phaneuf has just clinched a spot in the Grand Prix Final with a total of 21pts. So we now wonder who the other five are.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
One thing for sure, the CoP is a statistician's paradise. Or do I mean nightmare.

The tempation for the judges is just to ignore the CoP, decide who they think skated best (or anyway, who they want to win), then give out component scores accordingly -- just like the 6.0 ordinal system. This should show up in an analysis of the variance in the five component scores -- how much variation is there among the totals for the different skaters, compared to the amount of variation for each skater across the five categories.

For instance, the judges placed Phaneuf ahead of Onda in every component category, by the amounts (factored by 1.6) of 0.56, 1.04, 1.20, 1.04, and 1.60.

In other words, they thought Phaneuf was a better skater by about one full point straight across the board. Similar, I suppose, to giving Phaneuf a 5.6 and Onda a 5.2 (leaving room to place Poykio, Suguri and Kostner in between).

On the other hand, comparing Poykio to Suguri, Suguri won in Skating Skills, but lost in Transitions, Performance/Execution, Choreogrphy and Interpretation.

As I say, the statisticians are going to have a field day with all this.

Here are the marks for the top five. Phaneuf did take deductions for both of her falls (the last column), but won handily anyway.

1 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN 101.90 48.30 55.60 6.90 6.75 6.95 6.95 7.20 2.00 #11
2 Yoshie ONDA JPN 99.38 49.22 50.16 6.55 6.10 6.20 6.30 6.20 0.00 #10
3 Susanna POYKIO FIN 98.96 45.84 53.12 6.70 6.35 6.70 6.60 6.85 0.00 #12
4 Fumie SUGURI JPN 94.60 42.12 52.48 6.80 6.30 6.60 6.55 6.55 0.00 #8
5 Carolina KOSTNER ITA 88.08 37.36 50.72 6.50 6.10 6.30 6.40 6.40 0.00

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpcan04/SEG004.HTM

Mathman
 

bleuchick

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I was suprised to see Cynthia win with two falls so I HAD to see her LP. Apparently she fell on her 2nd triple lutz and a triple salchow. Beside that,why do judges like her? what exactly great about her?
 

chania36

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
I am sorry that you think like that that for for a long time we just did not have a great skater in Canada and now we do have some. Let me remind you that this was not a high level field of women, they are the 5 to 10 skaters in the world I think and also, Cynthia did skate a very solid short program and yes she did have two falls in the long but she skated very well the rest of it and if we compared to the rest of the field, they were close but because of the placing of Yoshia in the short she made some mistakes in the long that just could not alow her to catch up Cynthia. Why does always someone has to complain or critisize the skaters, why not be happy for her??? She is working as hard has the others I am sure, so this is her moment to shine just let her shine please, we will see at the Grand Prix final who is the best.

It is one thing to have a skater that we prefer but it is another to offer and give the respect to the others when they win. I like some skaters and they win sometimes and sometimes they dont but I do not try to discredit their win because I am not happy that my preferred skater did not win.

In the pairs, why then did the second place went to those people??? Their free skate was desastrous, but hey, I will not enter into this myself, I respect that and we agree that we disagree on some placement.

I just feel that it is unfortunate to always have someone to complain about a skater when they place better then the one they would have wanted to place higher.

I am more upset by that then the COP. I believe!!!!
 

SailorGalaxia518

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
I think we have got to give the pairs skaters alot of credit because of what is going on. We have no idea what they are going through. Also, Cynthia Phaneuf did a good job and it will be a delight to see her in the Grand Prix Final. :)
 

chania36

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
Thank you so much for adding such nice comments about the pairs and also about the Gold medalist ofSkate Canada Cynthia Phaneuf.
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Well, I cannot comment much abot SC yet as I haven't seen it, but I just wanna do some comments about the skaters.

First of all, I don't think there's any type of, shall I say, persecution against any skater, whereas it is Cynthia or someone else. I can't say much about her skating because I've only seen her once, at the FCC early this year, as well as Yukina Ota, who I only saw once at the same competition. With that little info, I can only say that when I think of that particular event, I remember Yukina's skating more than Cynthia's, which at the time seemed a little sloppy to me. Of course many months have passed, and I assume of course that her skating has evolved from that competition, and that must be why she's on a great roll so far at the GP. On sunday I get to see the ladies event for Skate America, so I will get to see Cynthia and how her skating has changed from FCC :)

As for the CoP, I like the system so far. Most complains I've heard are toward the facts of skaters having falls and getting to the podium over others. IMO, what we are seeing now is that the falls won't decide who had a better skate or not. I look at that as follow: a fan that doesn't know much of technicalities (such as myself) might only look at the falls as the errors, which is what happened IMO with the 6.0 system. I would think that as long as they didn't fall, it was a clean skate, without really putting attention to wether or not a skater had good strech, or good position in a certain spin, or any other things that actually are important as well. One skater could do this other things very well, and then have one fall in a jump, and that would be the end of them. I think the CoP is of course taking deductions of those mistakes, but without taking away the importance of the other elements, and if this is correct, I think is better for the skaters to get recognition for what they do good. It would be good that they gave us an average of the points a skater would receive for a good short and free skate, so that the audience can see if the scores the skaters are getting are high or low.

Now, as Mathman mention before, they way the component scores are placed of course it is some sort of temptation to score better to those skaters they like best. There's no such thing as a perfect system, and I don't think there ever will be one. So far I like it (I'm one of those who like to collect the data of the results, and play with Excell and make graphics to see the improvement of the skaters... yeah I know, it's either falling in the pathetic category, or in the die-hard fan category :rofl: )

so those are my 6 cents :laugh:
 
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Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
chania36 said:
I am sorry that you think like that that for for a long time we just did not have a great skater in Canada and now we do have some. Let me remind you that this was not a high level field of women, they are the 5 to 10 skaters in the world I think and also, Cynthia did skate a very solid short program and yes she did have two falls in the long but she skated very well the rest of it and if we compared to the rest of the field, they were close but because of the placing of Yoshia in the short she made some mistakes in the long that just could not alow her to catch up Cynthia. Why does always someone has to complain or critisize the skaters, why not be happy for her??? She is working as hard has the others I am sure, so this is her moment to shine just let her shine please, we will see at the Grand Prix final who is the best.

It is one thing to have a skater that we prefer but it is another to offer and give the respect to the others when they win. I like some skaters and they win sometimes and sometimes they dont but I do not try to discredit their win because I am not happy that my preferred skater did not win.

In the pairs, why then did the second place went to those people??? Their free skate was desastrous, but hey, I will not enter into this myself, I respect that and we agree that we disagree on some placement.

I just feel that it is unfortunate to always have someone to complain about a skater when they place better then the one they would have wanted to place higher.

I am more upset by that then the COP. I believe!!!!

I agree :agree: Thanks for sticking up for Cynthia. We have been bone dry in the ladies discipline for some time. It's about time someone "stepped up to the plate."

Yes, the judging system is hard to fathom. In the past a couple of falls pretty much meant it was over for a skater in the medal standing; but, this system seems to work a lot differently. I am having a hard time figuring out how the outcome is reached by the judges, but maybe in time it will make sense to me.

According to Tracy Wilson, the skaters must use strategy in both programs. And they are awarded more for the things they do well and for jump attempts rather than just deducted for mistakes - as in the old system. They have to work harder at the inbetween stuff. This is good. Before the skaters used to rely on their jumping abilities and sometimes ignore the inbetween steps. I think we too as fans have to reducate our skating eye and look at all the detail of each skater - not just their jumps.

Anyway, I enjoyed the skating. Good for Cynthia. I think she is the "shot in the arm" Canadian ladies discipline has needed for a long time.
 

thisthingcalledlove

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 24, 2003
OMG has it been 10 years since the last Canadian ladies' skater qualified for the GPF...(Josee, being the last to actually qualify...J-Ro qualified a few years ago when she was an alternate)...congrats, Cynthia!

I've never seen her skate, but I'm starting to have high hopes for her already. It's her first GP season, she's already going to the final...OMG...wow...
 
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Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Keep in mind that, even with two falls, Phaneuf completed the same amount of triples that Onda did-five. Therefore I don't have a problem with her finishing ahead of Onda. Onda's performance wasn't exactly perfect, either. Though she's come a long way artistically, I think Phaneuf still beats her in that category.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Ladiezzz Ice Dancing (NOT a sport)

If this is the way it's going to be, like at SkateAmerica (where difficulty wasn't recognized ala Miki Ando, but rather pops & safe skating were), then Sasha Cohen & Michelle Kwan will kick a** big time (hopefully Shizuka Arakawa as well)! And I say "YES", b/c I'd rather have them win everything under the sun then the winners of the last two Grand Prix competitions, including tonight's.

That said, I expect Sasha Cohen to dominate ALL competitions once she gets on her feet again (just like she did last year during the Grand Prix when COP was first introduced). No need to work on difficulty anymore ~ safe skating will win for her (aka 4 clean solo triples, doesn't even matter if they're all the same; just put in her best triple jump four times over & add a bunch of 2axels for good measure) ~ and then throw in her pretty extended spirals, fast unique spins, and winning presentation. Has it in the bag; can even fall two times like tonight's winner & only get .1 taken off for each fall b/c in the long run it won't matter (her SP points will put her so far ahead of the field that she can come in last in the FS & still win). Next will be a toss up between Michelle Kwan & Shizuka Arakawa for 2nd & 3rd. All others can literally knock themselves out doing everything under the sun......trying Quads, Triple Axels, Triple-Triple Combinations, et al.....but won't make a difference since difficulty no longer matters (& that's the honest to God's truth). They will be vying for 4th place & below, no ifs/whats/buts about it. In fact, no need to watch the FS anymore, the SP will tell the tale, just like in the old days when the winner of the SP was so far ahead of the field that s/he only needed to play it safe during the FS in order to win the whole she-bang.

Sincerely, Nadine

P.S. Oh yeah, no incentive anymore for the ladies to try quads & triple axels, since one gets double-whammied for it (aka quad is counted as a triple & 3A as a 2A, then points taken off for GOE, since neither is recognized as such in the first place). Also, same goes for 3/3s, second triple is counted as a double & points taken off for GOE. Skating has taken a huge leap backwards in time. :disapp:
 

qoo

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Nadine said:
Skating has taken a huge leap backwards in time. :disapp:

Nadine you can say that again and I'm very disappointed. Although I admire good presentation skills and all but figure skating is still a sport and this absurd COP will discourage any skaters to defy technical difficulties(jumps). They all will start playing safe as that's what counts more.... oh well :mad:
 

Hikaru

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
nadine said:
P.S. Oh yeah, no incentive anymore for the ladies to try quads & triple axels, since one gets double-whammied for it (aka quad is counted as a triple & 3A as a 2A, then points taken off for GOE, since neither is recognized as such in the first place). Also, same goes for 3/3s, second triple is counted as a double & points taken off for GOE. Skating has taken a huge leap backwards in time

with all the things I like about CoP, this would be in the no-noes. It really is not fair that a skater tries a jump, doesn't do it right and to top it all it gets recognize as a lesser one and taken the points out of it. That really needs to be changed. In fact, I believe I read somewhere that if someone changes, lets say, from a triple to a quad, they have deductions ? can someone verify this, perhaps I'm mistaken.
 

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Thanks for the link. I thought this was a funny passage:

Onda said, "I am very happy with my program today and happy to be training in the United States.” Weisinger does not speak Japanese and Onda is just learning English. “Her coach said,” When we started working together, I would write her notes in English and she would type them into a translator to figure out what I was saying to her.”
 
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