Ladies Free - Notes & Results

Hikaru said:

JS 12 Singles - GOE Short Program

On page 2, they mention the following
"If a skater has more revolutions in a jump than described (e.g. quadruple instead of a triple jump), the Judges GOE must be in the “minus grades”
for that element an the value of the jump will be change to the value of a jump with revolution required"

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OK, now I too am confused. Hey, CoP experts, what do you say? To begin with, I have no idea what is meant by the word "described" in the text. "Described" where? when? how? The only thing I can conclude is that they will penalize over-rotating.

BTW, Hikaru, I never welcomed you to GS. I can always appreciate a poster who makes an argument, accepts correction, and (all important) isn't too lazy to find and site the source of his/her information. WTG!

Ptichka said:

OK, now I too am confused. Hey, CoP experts, what do you say? To begin with, I have no idea what is meant by the word "described" in the text. "Described" where? when? how? The only thing I can conclude is that they will penalize over-rotating.

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I third this request. Hockeyfan? Dr. Frog? GKelly?

Ptichka said:

OK, now I too am confused. Hey, CoP experts, what do you say? To begin with, I have no idea what is meant by the word "described" in the text. "Described" where? when? how? The only thing I can conclude is that they will penalize over-rotating.

BTW, Hikaru, I never welcomed you to GS. I can always appreciate a poster who makes an argument, accepts correction, and (all important) isn't too lazy to find and site the source of his/her information. WTG!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome Ptichka! I've been wondering about that rule, by I cannot figure it out. I checked the document for the free skate and it seems it's not there. But I don't get what they are talking about. Unless it is a typo, which I don't think it is, 'cause they shoudl check the documents when they are posted, but hey, who knows.

This confused me as the ruling of skaters that try a jump, fail, and the get graded as a lesser jump and withminus GOE. I was re-watching Skate America, the pairs free when Inoue and Baldwin wher doing the side by side triple lutzes, she goit it but he did a double, and Peter C. said that they woul get that move graded as a side by side double lutz because of the mistake. I'm gonna check the document just in case.

The other thing I'm thinking about is the men and their quad jumps. Most men open their program with a 4toe, or a 4toe-3toe combo or somthing like that. SO, if they attempt the 4toe, but they under rotate it, then it would be rated as a 3toe. and if they had already plan 2 triple toes, then they would get Zayak... so they are going to have to be carefull with those, or perhaps change the combinations to other jumps, just to be sure?

I understood that if it's a planned Q that is tripled or under-rotated Q called by the TS as a triple, the Zayak rule doesn't go into effect. It's only if they plan too many or throw in unplanned ones. Let me clarify, though, that it's just whta I've heard from others and may not be correct. Let's e-mail the ISU and ask!

Hikaru said:

JS 12 Singles - GOE Short Program

On page 2, they mention the following
"If a skater has more revolutions in a jump than described (e.g. quadruple instead of a triple jump), the Judges GOE must be in the “minus grades”
for that element an the value of the jump will be change to the value of a jump with revolution required"

Click to expand...

My understanding.

First, note that this refers to the short program only.

In the senior short program, men are allowed to do one quad (either in the combination or as the jump out of steps, but not both). Ladies and junior men are not allowed to do quads in the short program.

So if a skater plans a quad that is not allowed under the short program rules, s/he will get credit for a triple and will also get a deduction/reduction in the GOE for doing a wrong jump, as well as possibly a more-negative GOE if there are also errors of execution.

This rule would also apply if a junior lady did a triple-triple combination in the short program, or if a female skater or junior man did a triple axel for the solo axel jump, because these are not valid options under the current short program rules.

As long as the skater reads the rules and doesn't plan jump content that violates them, this won't be a problem.

Thanks, gkelly. That does explain it, though I think it's an odd rule. Then again, may be they want to limit the importance of jumps for SP.

Do you think that skaters should have gotten credit for doing jumps that didn't fit the short program rules under the old system? They would have been penalized at a minimum with the "not according to requirements" deduction, more likely with deductions for an added element and an omitted required element, which would add up to a bigger penalty than just doing the easier required jump in the first place.

It didn't happen very often under the old system and shouldn't under the new system either. It's just a way of enforcing that the same required elements still apply, you can't just do your favorite or your hardest jumps with no regard to the short program rules.

On the other hand, if you do a good double where a triple was required, or single axel instead of required double axel, under the old system there was a 0.4 deduction, as bad as falling on the required jump. Under the new system, you get a minus 3 GOE.

thank you so much for the explanation! that makes better sense now.

I found this other document regarding to the program components, for those who wanted to know about what the scores reflected. Here's the link


http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152077-169293-64120-0-file,00.pdf