Mens and spiral sequences | Golden Skate

Mens and spiral sequences

LimeZest

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
As I was reading an old review from the 1999 Junior Grand Prix final (from Skateweb) and I was surprised to read this:

''Ilia Klimkin: was wearing a dark gold metallic bodysuit with asymetrical black insets around the torso. The music was some weird collection of odd noises and surfing music that reminded me of John Baldwin; but he carried it off well, with many very odd movements and positions that fit the music. Triple axel/double three/triple toe, good footwork into the triple loop. It's rare to see a man do a spiral step sequence in the short, but that's what Ilia did, interspersed with a spread eagle and a cantilever. Weird positions in the spin combination, too, but it's nice to see a Russian boy who's a good spinner for a change. This program was the clear winner. ''

As they are a required element for the ladies in the short, I didn't know men were aloud to do them also (we all know that that they have to execute 2 step sequences: circular, straight or serpentine). Under the new code of points, I am wondering how a nicely executed spiral step sequence would add up to the overall difficulty of a short program. I can picture Sandhu, Buttle and Weir doing interesting ones. Ever saw Klimkin short a while ago? Or any other men doing one in the short? Like this idea? Just wanted to share thoughts :)
 

PrincessLeppard

~ Evgeni's Sex Bomb ~
Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Do you suppose they meant "serpentine" step sequence? That would make more sense. But I really have no idea.

Laura :)
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
A healthy Illia Klimkin can skate to anything including chopsticks and be special.

I'm not crazy about guys doing spirals like Sasha and Michelle. It's ok in Pairs but not so much in singles. If the music calls for a male skater to do a spiral I can see the whole thing as parallel to the ice, and a serpentine spiral would be very much ok. Tough to change edges on spirals without bobbing up and down.

(Paul Wylie does a rugged outdoor butch spiral. ;) )

Joe
 
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Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Shawn Sawyer can do spirals that rival Sasha's. I love watching him do them. I think men should only include spirals if they have great flexibility, and if they are really good at them. Otherwise, they should leave spirals alone.
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
It's great if a man skater can do a fairly good spiral and put it in the program. As for spiral sequence, I feel it's a bit too much. Spread eagle is best for man's program while spiral is mostly great for ladies.
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
AFAIK, step sequences are circular footwork, straightline footwork, serpentine footwork AND spirals. A spiral sequence is a step sequence.

For the SP, ladies and men are required to do two step sequences. The ladies we know have to perform one spiral sequence. The men are not required to do it but I suppose they can as well, the rules only state they need two step sequences in their program. I was actually thinking about this exact subject the other day and I wasn't sure. Makes more sense now if there was a skater (Klimkin) who did it already. Thanks.
 
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
I never knew the "rules" on men and spirals. I don't see many men doing them.
However, today while doing my weekly run to yard sales, I came across a tape of highlights from the '92 Oly's and bought it. Paul Wylie did wonderful spirals, tho not long held the way the ladies do, in his programs. It got me thinking that of the few men I've seen do spirals, Paul does them best, IMO. (I didn't start watching skating until '94, so the stuff on the tape was all new to me)
 

dr.frog

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Under the old rules, it was possible for a male skater to do a spiral step sequence as one of the required step sequences in the short or long programs, and in fact between fall 1998 and the adoption of the CoP it was required for men to do a step sequence of "moves in the field" such as spirals in the free skate. Under CoP, though, "moves in the field" do not count as step sequences, and men are now only supposed to do things like spirals as part of "transitions". The spiral step sequences required for ladies are evaluated under totally different criteria than regular step sequences.
 

Sk8harvest

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Cantilever is a difficult move where you start from an outside spread eagle and then bend backwards - sort of like doing the limbo. The upper body is parallel to the ice, or close to it, bending backwards from the knees. It is hard to describe but if done well is spectacular. One or two skaters do this move - I believe Ilia Kulick does it.
 

Antilles

Medalist
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Klimkin does them as well. It must take really strong legs to not fall on your derriere doing this move.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Sk8harvest said:
Cantilever is a difficult move where you start from an outside spread eagle and then bend backwards - sort of like doing the limbo. The upper body is parallel to the ice, or close to it, bending backwards from the knees. It is hard to describe but if done well is spectacular. One or two skaters do this move - I believe Ilia Kulick does it.

Yes, Ilia Kulik is also doing them. And in 2001 Hallmark Pro (World Pro) he also did a triple toe out of cantilever.

Marjaana
 

RIskatingfan

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
The cantilever should be Klimkin TM LOL He has an amazing edge and body control when he does it.

Others do it as well, like Ilia Kulik, as it was mentioned, Kurt Browning, Alexei Yagudin did a few at shows too... and I'm sure many others do them.
 

soogar

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2003
Lots of guys do a spiral sequence. A famous one that comes to mind is Viktor Petrenko's spiral where he does a FO and while in spiral position does a 3 turn into a BO spiral.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - Kevin's spiral looks appropriate for a guy. And it looks like he doing a spiral because it fits in with the routine and not just for the sake of doing a spiral.

Soogar - I am impessed. A FO spiral 3Turn to BO spiral would not be an easy trick without all sorts of bobbles. I think though, that in order to go from fo to bo on the same foot one would have to do a a rocker or a bracket, not a 3 turn.
Still, it's not easy and bravo to Viktor.

Joe
 

sk8m8

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Let's not forget that Todd Eldridge did excellent spirals during a few of his routines. They were effective because of his outstanding body line and his stellar edging. I never felt they were "feminine" in presentation and always impressed me because of the difficulty of the move for a guy. Paul's always seemed so spectacular because of his ablility to bend and curve the edge so there was a sense of "motion" and ice coverage while not neccessarily having to hold the spiral for an extended time. There was one skater (younger Klimkin, perhaps?) who did a Wally jump into a backward spiral with good amplitude. I always thought it was a great move in the field. It looked like some skaters when they pitch forward on their landing, only this was control...as if he landed the Wally jump "body low, leg high".
 

guinevere

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Ptichka said:
Rohene Ward's spirals are the best. Check this out:
Forward
Backward (scroll to the bottom)
Wow, I'm even more impressed with the pic directly above Rohene's Backward spiral. It looks like a Sasha Y-spin, but it appears to be him skating on an outside arc rather than a spin.

I agree with Joe that I'd rather see a spiral that fits with the music and program instead of one done for the sake of doing a spiral (I feel the same way about the ladies), but I love to see a man with the necessary flexibility and control doing a spiral with amplitude. I even loved Plushy's Bieillman spin, back before they looked so danged painful (think 1998-99).

Klimkin's cantilever is gorgeous - but I worry that he's not going to be able to walk by the time he's 35 - those things are really hard on your knees!!
 
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