Marketing of ISU and other skating events...

Doggygirl · Nov 12, 2004

There has been discussion across several threads about the lack of attendance (no sold out crowds) at skating events, at least here in the US. Some ideas have been put forward in an attempt to explain this such as declining interest in Figure Skating, sketchy participation by the big names, etc.

Also there was a specific discussion on the Plushy thread (I think) about a poorly organized event - surly workers at the arena, problems with hotels and accomodations, etc.

The discussion about poor organization in the hosting of an event got me thinking about the Marketing of these events. I believe it was Joe who mentioned that a "packed stadium" with consist in part of die hard skating fans, even those who travel great distances, but many of the seats for a successful event have to be filled with the locals.

I just wonder if some of the problems are due to poor advertising and marketing more so than which skaters will be there, etc.

Are any of the organizations running skating events filling up the seats? (SOI, COI, others?)

Just curious about thoughts on that....

DG

Linny · Nov 12, 2004

Good idea - a thread of its own

Good idea to put this subject in a thread of its own.

Tickets for these events go on sale a long time before they are held. People thought I was out of mind to buy an all-event ticket to the DC Worlds a full two years in advance...it was a good move, though, since the all-event tickets sold out. You could get them through travel agents and pay a fee, but you couldn't get them directly like I did.

Many people simply do not want to buy a ticket that far in advance.

Even tickets for the Rolling Stones are not sold that far in advance. I don't know how it is with other sporting events... but I imagine that World Series tickets are hard to get but you don't have to buy them two years in advance.

Then there is seat assignment. The fair way to do it is to assign the media spots first, the camera spots first, the official spots first... then assign seats in order by which they were sold. Didn't happen for me. I was guaranteed a lower bowl seat. I bought the seat at 7:01am on the day they went on sale at 7:00am. I was among the first tickets sold. However, my seat was it the absolute last row of the lower bowl. Doesn't seem fair.

So, there I've covered two reasons why the tickets don't sell out... for other events, you buy your ticket fairly close to the event and you get an assigned seat when you buy it. If you use Ticket Master, you can even see a picture of the venue and pinpoint the exactl location of your seat.

Linny

NJSk8Fan · Nov 12, 2004

I see none to little advertisement around my area for skating events. The tv commercials for SOI and COI don't start til really close to the show.
If it wasn't for the fact that I became a skating fan and watch everything on tv and see the ads for area shows....and then got a computer and started posting at skating MB's, I wouldn't even know there were skating events being held in Philadelphia(I'm in NJ, 17 miles from the arena that holds the events).
I've just sent my order in for Skate America '05 in Atlantic City. I know it's way in advance, but the only place I know of even talking about this event is on-line. Of course, I don't live in Atlantic City to see how it's being promoted there, but plenty of people in my area (1 1/2 hours away) go to the casinos, so they ought to be advertising it!
As for ordering tickets, I've always ordered way in advance for SOI and COI, the day after the current years show in fact, I send the order form they leave on the seats for the next years show. We ordered our '98 Nat's tickets way in advance as well.
So my opinion would be---they need to advertise the events more!

Doggygirl · Nov 12, 2004

Hi all...

Linny, the example you gave about seat assignments is a perfect one. It may seem like a small detail, but successful event marketing is FULL of small details.

It is a benefit to the event promoters to sell seats as far in advance as they can. The only advantages I can even think of to buy a seat for an event far in advance is 1) get a discount for early purchase and/or 2) get a great seat.

Early ticket sales benefit the event organizers as they can estimate and realize the revenue stream way in advance. It sounds like based on your experience, the organizers got a benefit from you, but you got no benefit from them. That's a win/lose situation you are probably unlikely to "buy into" again. Marketing error in my opinion.

NJ8 - the fact that you don't see any advertising within 17 miles of the venue also says something about the marketing. Just out of curiosity, what's the seating capacity of that venue? Either seats need to be more aggressively marketed and sold (for VALUE - see previous paragraph) or smaller / less expensive venues chosen. No organization can just sit back and expect seats to sell themselves to die hard fans in my opinion, unless you're the NBA or NFL.

DG

NJSk8Fan · Nov 12, 2004

The "new" Wachovia Center in Philadelphia(this is about the 4th name this venue has had since it was built and started being used in approx. 1997/98), holds somewhere around 16-18,000 I believe.
I began going to SOI and COI in 1995 when the "old" Spectrum building was being used. The first several years, both levels of the venues were filled/nearly filled. It seems SOI attendance dropped off once Scott "retired". Last year, I forget if it was SOI or COI, there wasn't ONE person in the upper level.
The ticket prices are steep, around $100 for on-ice, first few rows.

MasterB · Nov 12, 2004

noticing

The marketing for skating SUCKS big time. When do you ever see a commercial for an upcoming skating event, Never. Skating was making good strides in the early 90's. it was building a fan base and then it went out of control after the 94 scandal. TV became overfloaded with meaningless skating events. The fans couldn't make out the difference between one event and the other. Have you notice the paltry sum that skaters receive when they win an event. It use to be $50,000(or $30,000) for a GP event now it is only $18,000 (about the cost of two costumes). The ISU and the USFSA do not spend a huge amount of money promoting their events respectively. Then again marketing is extremely expensive. At my rink I spend alot of time telling people which events are coming up and half of them still forget to watch it. I usually follow up every event by discussing the results at the rink, and most people reply by saying "Oh was that on last night, I forgot". Or my favorite "What is Skate America?". Did I mentioned that these are competitive skaters as well? On a different note not a single word was printed on the newspaper about Angela winning SA. I guess it is up to us to keep promoting skating. The last two years I've held a nationals party and about twenty people show up for two hours of screaming for our favorite skaters.

NJSk8Fan · Nov 12, 2004

One year some group was promoting some sort of "club" sort of thing...It was to do with Stars On Ice. Supposedly, I was going to have posters sent to me to post in my area to help advertise the show. I never got any posters and haven't heard anything more about this.
I suppose there is probably some law that would forbid we fans from printing out flyers and posting them....but I bet it'd make a difference in attendance if this sort of thing was done!
I have skating pins of one variety or another on all my coats and jackets. Whenever anyone comments and opens the door for discussion, I always try to get into the conversation about the shows that come to Philadelphia and recommend them for a nice time out for the family. But I'm sure a lot of people balk when they see ticket prices.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 12, 2004

Speaking of advertising. I just got an e-mail about Skate America 2005 in Atlantic City. I got that because I was at Skater America 2004 in Pittsburgh otherwise I would not have got that notice. It is early though. But the blitz could include letters to all the skating forums reminding the fans that it's the beginning of the GPs before the Olys. A lot of advertising could go out about that in itself. However, the scene of Atlantic City is a little Las Vegas, the Boardwalk is long and kept well, the weather should be good if not for swimming. I think a big blitz of advertising in the City itself and its surrounding area (Trenton, Cherry Hill, Princeton, and Philadelphia, to mention a few.) to grab the locals. I met some locals in Pittsburgh, who came to see Kwan but were not disappointed in what they did see. It can be exciting when looked at as a Sport and not as a Show.

I also agree I should get a discount now at least if I pay before the end of 2004.

Joe

heyang · Nov 12, 2004

What also stink about the seating is the ticket sellers idea of best seats. Ice skating's best seats are along the longer sides of the rink. However, ticket sellers just consider the row. Getting a seat near the end of the rink where they enter the ice is probably one of the poorer sections to be seated. Most programs are still choreographed for the judges' seating.

Marketing is definitely the poorest. I saw an ad for Katerina's show in Trenton, but it was grainy and part of a venue add - it was not advertised as an individual event. The ad was less than a month before the event.

Also, people don't want to commit to an event that's over a year away - especially for weekends. What happens if you're invited to a close family event or end up having to work. Due to the nature of my job, I very seldomly have to work on weekends, but when I do, it means working all day and being available for night time support if our conversion has a glitch. I found out 2 months ago that I have to work next Saturday for disaster recovery testing. Unfortunately, waiting too long means not getting a good seat and I won't pay good money to not have a decent view.

Mathman · Nov 12, 2004

Advertising for a single one-time event is tricky. If you pay $100,000 for a single TV or print ad, that ad all by itself has to attract 2000 new people at $50 apiece just to break even.

It is better for tours, where you can advertise the whole tour nationally and "check your local papers for the date near you."

Speaking of local papers, I make it a point to write either to the sports editor or to the ice skating/Olympic games reporter for my local paper, whenever they do a feature on skating or skaters. (OK, that's like about twice a year, but still...) The funny thing is that when send email from my computer at work, with a university address and a "Prof." in front of my name, they almost always write back. When it's just me writing from home, no. Maybe they think I am a journalism professor checking up on them, LOL.

Mathman

Mathman · Nov 13, 2004

PS. On another thread I mentioned that Michelle was in Detroit yesterday to promote the Marshalls event. She gave a clinic for youngsters at the Detroit Skating Club.

It seems like the advertising strategy for these affairs is directed mostly at people who are already skating fans. I think this makes sense. You can't make someone like skating if he doesn't like skating. But if he does like skating, let's make sure he comes.

Sort of like the political strategy that says, don't waste your time trying to sway undecided voters, just make sure the people who are going to vote for you actually go to the polls.

Mathman

SkateFan4Life · Nov 13, 2004

Doggygirl said:
The discussion about poor organization in the hosting of an event got me thinking about the Marketing of these events. I believe it was Joe who mentioned that a "packed stadium" with consist in part of die hard skating fans, even those who travel great distances, but many of the seats for a successful event have to be filled with the locals.

I just wonder if some of the problems are due to poor advertising and marketing more so than which skaters will be there, etc.
DG

Well, for one thing, IMHO, only true-blue figure skating fans will be willing to pay for the expensive seats in the Grand Prix events. I don't remember how much the All-Event ticket was at this year's Skate America, but it certainly was a substantial amount of money.

With so many of the top skaters withdrawing from the GP events, and so few recognizable names to the general public, it's going to be hard to fill the seats.
With all due respect to Arakawa, who is a wonderful World Champion (!), she simply is not a household name to the general public.

Do the local skating clubs have any role in these events? Perhaps they would be a reachable audience to attend the competitions.

And, frankly, many "general audience" folks attend the SOI and/or the COI shows and see these skaters in live performances. With all of the television coverage, it really isn't necessary to attend any of the GP events - unless the spirit moves you to do so.

IMHO, of course.

BrokenAnkle · Nov 13, 2004

I recently attended Legends on Ice show in Long Beach and, although I knew about it through the Internet, they had an article in the Long Beach Press telegram, touting Dorothy Hamill and Rudy Galindo as the "stars." I heard ads for it on the radio, too. But the thing they did that may have been most effective was some kind of partnership with Ralphs. There were fliers at each Ralphs check out stand with a deal, 2 tickets for 1 for the matinee. I couldn't attend the matinee, but it called attention to the other 2 shows as well, of course.

I went to the first night and there was a decent crowd, the bottom level was filled and the mezzanine had quite a few people throughout. Lots of young folk: children and 20 somethings in addition to the usual, ahem, older crowd (I include myself in the latter group) I got the feeling that much of the audience was there because they knew someone in the show.

2 things were done poorly: the graphic for the show was downright ugly, sort of a x-ray version of a skater who ressembled Dorothy. And this is not a marketing matter, but the program, while it had great photography, was otherwise terrible. Badly organized, poorly written and the run down of the numbers bordered on incoherent.

But aside from that I thought it was probably an example of successful marketing for a small venue.

BA

Linny · Nov 14, 2004

Ticket prices

I thought the all event tickets for SA were quite reasonable for the amount of skating you got to see.

Linny

Jaana · Nov 14, 2004

About skating shows (not something like COI or SOI), I think that it would be a good idea for either the rink or the organizer to have a person, maybe just as an ordinary poster, to put a message on different Internet skating forums about an up-coming skating show. The message would just need the info about the date & time, place and skaters that are expected to participate. The main thing is that this info reaches the interested audiences. Besides that kind of "advertising" would not cost anything...

It seems that lots of times the info solely seems to depend on some local skating fan, a person that is really active, seeing the ad in the rink or maybe on local paper, and spreading the info on Internet. Skating fans do travel e.g. from another state to see a show if a skater or two in the cast interests them, and sometimes from another country or even continent, so Internet should be put in full use, in my opinion...

Marjaana

Doggygirl · Nov 14, 2004

Hi all...

Being in sales, and occassionally marketing for a living....

There is more to "marketing" than "advertising." Advertising is just one component. Maybe all of these things are alreay being done by the event hosts, but just in case!!

And...local advertising especially by TV isn't nearly as expensive as it used to be with the cable opportunities that are highly targeted.

Since arenas are not being filled, I would say that pretty much any ticket sold is a good ticket sold. Are the event hosts offering any ticket "specials" for students, families, local participants in rinks / clubs, etc.?

How about tagging on to other popular "sports on skates" such as hockey? Autograph signing? An exhibition including a figure skater and famous hockey player? Just trying to think outside the box for "draws."

Someone mentioned newspaper "PR." GOOD!!

Are there web sites with information about the events that are READILY SEARCHABLE on the search engines? (amazingly, people think a fancy site is what gets the draw.....not true. Very basic content is fine - it's the ability to find the basic info that is key. My hubby does this for local business for $500.)

Posting on FS related discussion boards already mentioned.

I just know I've seen packed venues in my town for stuff like the annual antique tractor parade, lawn mower races, etc.

At any rate, I get the feeling that the hosts of these events might be taking too much of a "build it and they will come" approach. There are always other ideas. HEY!!! We ought to start the Goldenskate GP Event Promotion Company! Between all of us here, I bet we could put some butts in seats, or at least get more tickets sold!!

DG

Mathman · Nov 14, 2004

Well, sure, the antique tractor parade. But you can't expect figure skating to compete with that! :rofl:

Hmm...The Goldenskate Figure Skating Promotion Company (Gifspic), Doggygirl, President and CEO. You know something? Seriously, we could do that. Not so much for the Grand Prix series, maybe, but for local events, competitions for juniors, etc. I know I have lived in Detroit for many years and even after I became a figure skating fan in 1998, still I didn't know about all the events that are going on around here all the time, until I started reading Golden Skate.

Giving out specially priced tickets at local rinks seems like a win-win deal. I wonder exactly what kind of promotionl work Michelle was doing when she visited local clubs recently for Marshalls.

Mathman

ladybug · Nov 16, 2004

I live in Pittsburgh and went to Skate America this year. Attendence was poor but I have also gone to COI and SOI and there were lots of empty seats. As a matter of fact, COI doesn't come to Pittsburgh anymore. I just don't think we are a skating city. Tickets are high and the parking is convenient but pricey.

Add to that, there was very little advertising. No real articles in the newspapers about who would be there. I don't think the absence of Michelle or Sasha had anything to do with it. Most tickets were purchased long before Sasha withdrew and before Michelle decided not to do the GP's this year.

Maybe the USFSA should check out the locations and their skating shows history before making a choice for Skate America. I for one was happy they came to Pittsburgh so I could be a part of watching a live competition but I also knew that it wouldn't be a packed house.

Ladybug

Arsenette · Nov 16, 2004

Heck I'm a true-blue fan :love:

but I sure as heck don't have the deep pockets :biggrin:

Well call it advertising or marketing I do at least hear of the SOI and COI commercials in my area. As for other events I don't hear all that much since the closest any Skate America was to Philadelphia was Reading, PA (and I heard NOTHING about it outside of boards I read often and of course follow the ISU calendar :agree: ). The only time I heard anything was during 98 nationals in Philadelphia and we heard a LOT during that time. That was the only time I felt it necessary to practically go into debt for one ticket to Ladies LP :rock:

when you go to one event for about $75 (at the time - they are much higher now as I hear) you don't go all that often. I miss the days when tickets were cheaper and it was a family affair to go to sporting events.

Another thing that people seem to miss is that outside of the skating fans - most do not trust the ISU after 1998. 2002 didn't help that's for sure. I talk to a LOT of non-skating fans that occasionally watch on TV and they refuse to plunk down tickets for a competition. They would rather go to an exhibition where they know they are not being judged. This also coming from people who DID go to competitions in their area.

BravesSkateFan · Nov 16, 2004

Well I don't know about other people, but personally I don't attend skating competitions because I can't afford it. Its very expensive to see elegible competitions. 99% of the time you have to travel some distance to get there. so not only to you have to pay for tickets (which are expensive enough by themselves) but you also have to pay for transportation, and lodging. That can turn into a tidy sum of money after a while.
Its hard enough for a die hard fan like me to spend that money, let alone a casual fan.

Marketing of ISU and other skating events...

Doggygirl

Linny

NJSk8Fan

Doggygirl

NJSk8Fan

MasterB

NJSk8Fan

Joesitz (RIP)

heyang

Mathman

Mathman

SkateFan4Life

Guest

BrokenAnkle

Linny

Jaana

Doggygirl

Mathman

ladybug

Arsenette

BravesSkateFan

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