ISU Makes Threat To Member Nations Re. Skaters That Pulled Out of GP

Joesitz said:

It could be the loss of revenue for the ISU. As we know, the Skate America was not well attended and the reasons could be the absence of the two stars. I'm not sure about skate Canada attendance.

Joe

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SA is never well attended. In 1993 I remember in Dallas, the field consisted of the reinstated Oly champs Boitano, Petrenko, and top skaters Eldredge, Urmanov. In ladies they had Baiul- the reigning world champ at that time, Tonya Harding before the Kerrigan attack, and a budding Michelle Kwan. The arena was either half or 2/3 filled. GP's are not the competitions that are well attended, at least in the USA.

I can understand the concern about not seeing top skaters in the GP's but if the skaters choose not to compete, that should be allowed. I don't see it affecting the ISU revenue that much.

Plushenko really contributed to the whole mess by skating in shows while declining to skate in the GP's for medical reasons. I understand his reasons- skaters have to look at their long term goals (that is, if they want to). Had there been no last minute intervention on the ISU's part in the latest show (and the resulting cancellation of his performances) we would not have heard these threats from the ISU.

It bothers me that Speedy is controlling the skaters so much. Yes, rules and regulations are necessary in the functioning of any organization, but they need to take into account the skaters' needs too. Speedy is a dictator who has no regard for anyone but himself. I would love to see him leave, and have more peace in the FS world.

Vash

Fossi said:

Is Sasha really injured? Her latest journal entry says she has been practicing and her program is coming together well and she has a "surprise" for everyone in her LP. If this is a 3/3 or a quad we will know she wasn't' injured at all. I think I read that Sasha had a back sprain, but I remember posters saying that a back sprain isn't really an injury. I dunno.

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She said it all starting coming together THIS WEEK. The doctor may have just given her the go ahead to start jumping again this week. She didn't stop skating all together just no multirevolution jumps. You can't compete if you can't do triples. She was probably running through her programs without the jumps and has had more time to work on the choreography. A muscle strain is an injury just not as serious as the stress fracture she had last time. Anyone who has strained their back knows the kind of pain that is. I sincerely doubt that the surprise is a 3/3 or a quad. It could be anything.

The more I think about it, the more I think this memo is a response to Plushy. In the '02/'03 season, Sarah Hughes dropped out of the GP events due to injury; she still did pro-ams, cheesefests -- and Nats and Worlds, all without any threats from the ISU. Kwan skipped the GP -- to rest and to prepare, just like this year -- and she did the cheesefests) in both the '02/'03 season and the '03/'04 season -- again, there were no threats. It is barely a week since Plushy's mess -- and the ISU drops the iron glove. IMHO, the ISU has every right to make the GP mandatory (absent injury) and to bar injured skaters from cheesefests -- next year. It has waived any right to punish the skaters for doing this year the same things that has been permitted for the past three years.

In what ways do top tier skaters not give back to the Sport? What exactly is an example of giving back?

Just competing in the GPs is not what I would call giving back, and the lack of Plush, Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka this year has given rise to other skaters which is something to consider. With ESPN doing the TV, we are getting to see more skaters than before and without the fluffs.

On a personal level, I am a Kwaniac but I can do without her except for Nats and Worlds. This way there is a chance I will get to see Susanna, Yukina,Joannie, Without Plush, I get to see more of the men if they are not injudred: Griazev, Evan, etc.

Also so I think Michelle and Sasha have done some charitable skates and Plush too. So they are giving back.

As a suggestion, since no one is giving one, I think the concept of the GPs needs some revamping. After the Marshall's spring fling, the skaters could take time off for relaxation and work on their new routines from April through end of August. TheGPs culd start in early September and go on every three weeks instead of two giving the skters time to travel. I'm must thinking out loud but I think the GPs have to be thinking differently.

Joe

Joesitz said:

I
As a suggestion, since no one is giving one, I think the concept of the GPs needs some revamping. After the Marshall's spring fling, the skaters could take time off for relaxation and work on their new routines from April through end of August. TheGPs culd start in early September and go on every three weeks instead of two giving the skters time to travel. I'm must thinking out loud but I think the GPs have to be thinking differently.

Joe

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You're forgetting about touring. While the tours are much shorter now than in the past the last olympic tour lasted till August. Now it is more like June but still 2 months less time. September way too early. I like the concept of spreading them out more but you've only got so much time. Nationals start in Dec. and Jan. for countries. You've got that big gap before Worlds to work with though. Would it be better to schedule competitions in that time period as well? Make them regional? North American skaters do SA and SC, Europeans France and Russia, Asians NHK and China? Forget the whole GP concept and just have them be individual competitions that skaters can decide which ones they want to do?

MKbeauty said:

Mathman:
Are you attending the Marshall's event? If so, please post lots of details.

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I am! I am! I will! I will!

But my wife forbids me to take notes during the performances. Last time she said, "What kind of a date is this, you are completely ignoring me and pestering everyone around you with, 'Was that a triple loop or a triple Salchow?'"

Hey MKbeauty, I see you've been around since March but just started posting. Welcome, and keep it up!

Mathman

Oh, Soogar, Michelle gives back to the sport in so many ways I won't even try to list them. She is the face of figure skating, at least in the U.S., and its heart and soul. Thousands upon thousands of little girls take up the sport hoping to be just like Michelle. Thousands of parents hope their sons can find a girl like her one day.

Everyone who meets her -- and she is very generous with her time in this regard, never refusing an autograph or a smile and a kind word for a fan -- comes away with a greater love of the sport of figure skating because of her. Ask a typical man-in-the-street to name a currently competitive figure skater, and he'll say, Michelle Kwan. Asked to name two, he'll say, um, Kristi Yamaguchi?

About money, there is a reason why she has a million dollar contract with Disney and a million dollar contract with Chevrolet. These corporations want Michelle as the representative of values that they hope the public will associate with their products.

Mathman

Mathman said:

Oh, Soogar, Michelle gives back to the sport in so many ways I won't even try to list them. She is the face of figure skating, at least in the U.S., and its heart and soul. Thousands upon thousands of little girls take up the sport hoping to be just like Michelle. Thousands of parents hope their sons can find a girl like her one day.

Everyone who meets her -- and she is very generous with her time in this regard, never refusing an autograph or a smile and a kind word for a fan -- comes away with a greater love of the sport of figure skating because of her. Ask a typical man-in-the-street to name a currently competitive figure skater, and he'll say, Michelle Kwan. Asked to name two, he'll say, um, Kristi Yamaguchi?

About money, there is a reason why she has a million dollar contract with Disney and a million dollar contract with Chevrolet. These corporations want Michelle as the representative of values that they hope the public will associate with their products.

Mathman

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Funny you should say that, Mathman...I'm a member of my college's speech and debate team, and I compete in poetry interpretation. We get ordinals, like they do in figure skating. One girl (Grace Zelyff- she's like Ann Patrice...adopted from Korea) performed a poem about Asians (we're not allowed to write poetry in interpretation), and one of the lines were: People think all asians are like JAckie Chan, Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamagucci, Yan can cook...and so can you...

Well, I can see both sides of this issue (I think). :sheesh:

ISU: They have set up the Grand Prix events, and in order to sell a decent number of tickets and, especially, gain lucrative television contracts to show these events, the big names - Kwan, Cohen, Plushenko, Joubert, Arakawa, etc. - must be in attendance. If these top skaters commit to compete in these events and then pull out of the events due to injury - and then they proceed to skate in shows and/or compete in other events at the same time the GP event they cancelled is on - then the ISU is perfectly within its rights to sanction those skaters. There's such a thing as keeping a committment, guys. If you commit to do compete in Skate America and a more lucrative event arises that is scheduled for the same time, and you opt to cancel your appearance at Skate America, due to injury, and then show up at the other event - nuts to you!

The Skaters: These folks may be burning themselves out, bigtime, and perhaps the Grand Prix series is simply a matter of too much. The prolonged COI tour is a major haul, but it's done within the continental US, so the traveling is done within a reasonable traveling distance. We aren't talking about overseas flights, jet lag, and the like. If a skater is invited to compete in, say,
the Cup of Russia and the NHK Trophy, that's two major, overseas flights in opposite sides of the world. Ugh.

Skate America's attendance has been embarrassing, to say the least. There were so many empty seats at this year's SA that the organizers must have been gnashing their teeth as they counted the receipts.

There are so many injured top-flight skaters these days, and that certainly takes its toll on attendance at the competitions.

There are six GP events. Singles skaters can compete in only three of them, and only two can be scoring events. It stands to reason that there simply aren't enough "top flight", "marquee" skaters to compete in all of the events. The cast of characters for some of these events consists primarily of second-tier skaters, and, with all due respect to them, they simply won't fill the seats and/or please the television sponsors.

IMHO, of course.

I don't know how these skaters are burning themselves out by competing in a few events a year. Most of these skaters aren't even fully prepared for the early events. Maybe they're burning themselves out with the summer touring. Anyway, a skater can just do an easier program early in the season and build up to the big events.

As for MK giving back... so what that she has endorsements... I would say that a factor in her receiving all those endorsements is the length of time that she has remained eligible which is entirely due to the ISU's rules in allowing figure skaters to receive prize money. So now that she has profited and benefitted from the ISU rules, she doesn't need to participate in ISU events?

I'm not bent out of shape that MK and co aren't competing , however I am concerned about the GP series. If the average TV viewer won't watch an event unless there is a big star participating in it, then the ISU has to figure out a way to get these skaters to participate or force them out. As for skating going south without MK... I highly doubt it. When skating was amateur, a new crop of skaters came through every time. If the ISU cuts these fat cats loose who can't be bothered with the GP, a new crop of skaters will arise to take the place of today's stars.

I'm also concerned with the USFS staging these events and usurping the GP (which might be the USFS intention). You really don't want one federation calling all the shots. The cheesefests (if they can even be called that) have better television coverage and more prize money however they are limited to American skaters and top foreign skaters. Grand Prix events are the only events that give skaters from underrepresented countries a shot at competing and winning prize money.

P.S. Mathman, I'm not sure how many kids want to be like MK, but there were tons of kids and parents who wanted their kids to be like Tara Lipinski when she won in 1998. Lots of kids wanted to be Kristi Yamaguchi, Oksana etc. It just varies with the cycle.

soogar -- how much of a shot would a not-wll-known skater such as Cynthia Phaneuf have of winning silver and/or gold medals (and a significant amount of prize money), or getting a lot of press (especailly in the USA) if the "big names" such as SC or MK had participated in the GP? Maybe, the ISU should leave the GP events to the "up-and-comers", while assigning a "big name" to each GP event to do something other than competing -- some exhibition skates, commentating, or explaining the judging the system to bring in the viewers.

soogar said:

P.S. Mathman, I'm not sure how many kids want to be like MK, but there were tons of kids and parents who wanted their kids to be like Tara Lipinski when she won in 1998. Lots of kids wanted to be Kristi Yamaguchi, Oksana etc. It just varies with the cycle.

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Exactly. Skaters like these give everything they have to the sport. We should support and encourage them, not try to think of ways to force them out, while crying, "But what have you done for me lately?"

MM

Maybe, the ISU should leave the GP events to the "up-and-comers", while assigning a "big name" to each GP event to do something other than competing -- some exhibition skates, commentating, or explaining the judging the system to bring in the viewers.

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Actually atty, that's not a bad idea.......... :agree: 42

attyfan said:

soogar -- how much of a shot would a not-wll-known skater such as Cynthia Phaneuf have of winning silver and/or gold medals (and a significant amount of prize money), or getting a lot of press (especailly in the USA) if the "big names" such as SC or MK had participated in the GP? Maybe, the ISU should leave the GP events to the "up-and-comers", while assigning a "big name" to each GP event to do something other than competing -- some exhibition skates, commentating, or explaining the judging the system to bring in the viewers.

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You know, attyfan, if I were Speedy, I'd hire you. I like your idea. The GP should be used for up and comers to get acquainted with the public, while the top-tier skaters do other things.

Well the GP isn't profitable with up and comers. While it's nice to see the up and comers , and doesn't really matter if there isn't an audience and advertising dollars which would allow these events to continue.

Just how important is the money involved with the up and comings. Who cares if they are up and coming. I see nothing wrong with Susanna Polykio placing high in the GPs.. I prefer that to the MK/SC nonsense that is most prevalent in figure skating. Now there's Slutskaya back in the mix. I still want to see more of Susanna Poykio. I like figure skating. I'm not worried about the USA or Mothier Russia. Maybe others are.

joe

Don't know if it is much relevant, but I kind of remembered that MK was seeded "only" as #9 at the last World's. As there are 8 higher seeded skaters than MK, then the ISU shouldn't be too mad at MK for not being at the GPs since MK was not considered as good as the other 8 skaters by the ISU?

citrus said:

Don't know if it is much relevant, but I kind of remembered that MK was seeded "only" as #9 at the last World's. As there are 8 higher seeded skaters than MK, then the ISU shouldn't be too mad at MK for not being at the GPs since MK was not considered as good as the other 8 skaters by the ISU?

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Granted your reminder of this silly 'seeded' rankings, but we now have Mk and Sasha in the same mix, as with the seeded rankings. Other than Irina, do you think this seeding busines still makes sense? I mean Phaneuf is way up there. To me, the proof is in the pudding, and Worlds is the pudding, wheher or not anyone places high in the GPs.

Joe

Great idea

Great idea about the GP events being for the up and comers with a big headliner doing an exhibition and possibly an autograph signing. So how can that idea be communicated to the organizers?
Linny

I think that the idea of ISU rankings is kind of same as in other sport (e.g. tennis). An athlete has to compete to gather points. In figure skating there are so few competitions, that in my opinion it should be expected that the skaters appear in them, unless injured. And if they are injured, they should not be allowed to appear in shows during the time frame of GP competitions, if they wish to remain as eligible skaters for Worlds and Olympics. And they should not in future to be allowed to compete in Worlds and Olympics, if they don´t compete in GP (unless injured).

In my opinion ISU has been way too lenient in this matter. If some skaters find competing in these few events too exhausting, it is time to turn pro, in my opinion.

Marjaana