ISU Makes Threat To Member Nations Re. Skaters That Pulled Out of GP

My impression has always been that the US audiences/fans will root for a US skater before a foreign skater. If some rooted for Oksana over Nancy, it had to do more with the tragedies in Oksana's young life than her ethnic origin (Ukrainian).

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Well I think it depends on what group of people you are basing this all on. While I agree that the casual American fan will tend to root for Americans, I don't think that's true for us die-hards. Most Americans only watch skating at the Olympics...they don't know one skater from the other, so they just say...I'll root for her, she's American. Most Americans knew Nancy but had no clue who Oksana was until the Olympics...they are going to go with who they know.

I don't think this is so much true for the true fan. I am from the US, and while my favorite skater is American (kwan), her nationality is not why I like her. Fumie is one of my other favorites, along with Shen/Zhao. While my list of favorites includes more Americans than not, a lot of it has to do with exposure. Face it, it the US we get very little coverage as compared to Europe and probably Asia as well. And of the coverage we do get much of it is US centric (to appeal to the casual fan). So we see lots of US skaters, and not much from other countries. So we get the chance to watch the US skaters throughout thier careers and don't get the others till they "become famous." Naturally this will make our lists US-centric. Another factor is style. Being from the US most of us will inherently gravitate towards a western style of skating, and mostly we will find that in skaters from the US, can, etc... one isn't better than the other, its simply cultural preference.

Just my 2-cents

Vash01 said:

I am very surprised that some people may like/dislike certain skaters because of their ethnicity. Actually Sarah Hughes is Jewish. Is that a factor for some people (when it comes to comparisons with Michelle or Sasha)? May be we don't really have a melting pot.

Vash

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Sarah Hughes is not Jewish. Her mother is Jewish, her father is not. I have no knowledge of their religious practices, and she would be Jewish only by traditional Jewish law. She has never publically identified heself as a Jew(nor has Sasha for that matter).

I am surprized to hear that about Sasha, Bronxgirl. I always thought that Sasha's family was openly observant. But I just found this quote in an article about Jewish athletes:

"When the spokesperson for Olympic ice skater Sasha Cohen, a gold medal favorite for 2006 who is profiled and pondered and piffed-over in nearly every publication devoted to Jewish athletes, is contacted for an interview request, the spokesperson declines with a pleasant e-mail explaining that Sasha "does not practice Judaism and would not want to lead people the wrong way."

To comment on Kuchana's interesting post, I believe that there was a time in the 90s when the American powers-that-be were concerned that figure skating was becoming an "Asian sport." Ladies world champions (no other disciplines counted) were Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato, Lu Chen and Michelle Kwan -- with the equally exotic if non-Asian Oksana Baiul thrown in there somewhere. Red-white-and-blueTexan Tara Lipinski was "good for the sport" (OK, she was Polish and Catholic, but nobody's perfect.)

Despite a century and a half of halting progress, racism remains America's scourge. Yet it is not everything. Americans rallied around Debi Thomas as bearer of the standard of freedom against Katarina Witt of the "Evil Empire." According to Scott Hamilton's book, Thomas nevertheless felt ill at ease and unwelcome when she skated for SOI following the 1988 Olympics.

I happened to watch the 1994 World Championship while at a working retreat in a rustic lodge. The crowd was about half white and half black (no Asians). There was already some tention in the air over remarks made about American Indian culture (the Lodge had a Native American theme). All of the black spectators felt that Surya Bonaly totally dominated the contest and was robbed by the pro-Japanese home-town judges. None of the white viewers felt this way.

Everyone was really angry about it, too, even people who had no interest in figure skating and knew nothing about it.

Mathman

There is a difference between being Jewish and practicing Judaism. "Jewish" is cultural as well as religious. Many non-practicing Jews still regard themselves as Jewish. I have, for example, seen pictures of Sarah Hughes wearing a large Star of David. As the child of a Jewish mother, in some sense that indicates she considers herself Jewish, even if she is not religious or observant.

euterpe said:

There is a difference between being Jewish and practicing Judaism. "Jewish" is cultural as well as religious. Many non-practicing Jews still regard themselves as Jewish. I have, for example, seen pictures of Sarah Hughes wearing a large Star of David. As the child of a Jewish mother, in some sense that indicates she considers herself Jewish, even if she is not religious or observant.

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True, but many people wear a Star of David not knowing of its' religious meaning, or if they are of a "bi-religious" background, will wear one to honor part of their heritage. Also, other people sometimes label a person on the basis of how their name sounds, which may have nothing whatso ever to do with their religious beliefs. My mother's maiden name was Gordon, and no it was not changed when the family went through Ellis Island. They came from the Vilna area of the Pale, and were observant Jews for all of their lives.

Mathman said:

To comment on Kuchana's interesting post, I believe that there was a time in the 90s when the American powers-that-be were concerned that figure skating was becoming an "Asian sport." Ladies world champions (no other disciplines counted) were Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato, Lu Chen and Michelle Kwan -- with the equally exotic if non-Asian Oksana Baiul thrown in there somewhere. Red-white-and-blueTexan Tara Lipinski was "good for the sport" (OK, she was Polish and Catholic, but nobody's perfect.)

Despite a century and a half of halting progress, racism remains America's scourge. Yet it is not everything.

I happened to watch the 1994 World Championship while at a working retreat in a rustic lodge. The crowd was about half white and half black (no Asians). There was already some tention in the air over remarks made about American Indian culture (the Lodge had a Native American theme). All of the black spectators felt that Surya Bonaly totally dominated the contest and was robbed by the pro-Japanese home-town judges. None of the white viewers felt this way.

Everyone was really angry about it, too, even people who had no interest in figure skating and knew nothing about it.

Mathman

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Mathman, I've also noted the same thing. It saddens if the American powers-that-be were concerned because the ladies field was being dominated by Asians in the '90s. I hope they've gone beyond that now.

I remember the '94 Worlds when Yuka won and I also remember Surya's unsportsmanlike attitude at the medal ceremony. To me it was no race at all and I think it's silly when people use race as the motivating factor to root for a skater. I just thought Yuka was the better performer. Although that is interesting that people who had no interest in figure skating or knew nothing about it would get all antsy about that. What did they think when Surya took off her medal? Surely everyone thought it was unsportmanslike or no?

Other than that, why was there tension at the lodge over remarks made about the American Indian culture?

94 and others

I was disappointed in 94 when Yuka won over Surya because I'd admired Surya for years and was hoping that her particular genius would be recognized. I'd never seen Yuka before due to limited TV coverage. Of course, since then, I've grown to adore Yuka.

I was disappointed later when Oksana won over Nancy... but, at the same time, I recognized the better skate and was thrill for the young, freshfaced girl. I'm so glad that Nancy has grown to recognize that her accomplishments are just as wonderful, especially those accomplishments off the ice... and I wish her all the best with her new child on the way.

I can fully understand a non-figure skating audience rooting for Surya at one time and for Nancy at another time. These two individuals really jump out to an audience. It's not exactly razzle-dazzle. It's just a quality that makes you like them immediately. Yuka and Oksana are different. They grow on you.

Is it really racism?

Linny

I really don't think there is anything wrong with being what one is. Neither do I think it is wrong that a fan is happy to see that one of his "tribal" background wins a sports title. What I do beleve is that in a judging sport, the 'tribal' background is one of many sublime factors which goes into the scoring.

As for fans feeling good about "one of their own" so to speak is perfectly natural. In the case of Americans, there is no majority of any ethnic group. It was not unusual to see Dominican Americans rushing to the ball games to see Sosa beat out the 'gringo' (I forget his name) for the same record of the number of home runs. Neither was it unusual for others who saw Sosa as black, and hispanic to support him also. The 'gringo' had his fan backing too, and it might look racial but there it was. However, there is a third group of fans who are so turned on by the sport in itself, that race falls far short of the outcome.

There is nothing wrong with having a bit of pride in life.

Joe

Here is my 2 cents:

I respect Michelle, Plushy, and Sasha if they are hurt they should not have to go to the Grand Prix, but if skating and skaters do not make their Grand Prix big it will never get the market it deserves.

Maybe Skaters that are top four at the World Championships should get a BYE into the Grand Prix final.

In my opinion skating could have just as much financial success and TV coverage as tennis. I think skating could be as popular as tennis is but the big name skaters will have to show-up at the events.

Everything is going down for Figure Skating. The Ice channel will never get off the ground if the big stars don't step-up.

Look at the Marshall cheese feast crowds. They get a full house at this event. Why, because the big name skaters are there. Prize money will not go up at the Grand Prix events if the skating stars are not there.


Skate America is held in a bad month. It has to compete with The World Series, NFL regular season, and the start of the NBA season not to mention Tennis.

This year SA was held in the same state that as the Advantage Tennis Tournament. When I found out that Michelle was not going I decided not to go as well. I have a few friends who changed their mind as well when the found out Michelle was not going and decided to attend the Tennis Tournament instead. Why, because the Tennis tournament had more big names then the skating tournament. (Venus Williams Amelie Mauresmo, Maria Sharapova, Jennifer Capriati etc.)

Look at tennis :
There is the Tennis Channel
They have four or five major events that ALL the Tennis STARS show up to.
I think the skating community (ISU)should take a few notes from the USTA, WTA and ATP.

I think that there should be less skating tour shows and more skating tournaments if skating is to have a greater financial success.

I have a few ideas for skating but I don't have the money to back it.

I've seen posts on European skating boards where the European fans trash the American skaters. I have read them praising skaters only because they are from Europe. When they say good things about American skaters they make sure to point out their European ancestry (ie: Sasha Cohen, the Russian) Although I have to say I think Sasha may have fed into the whole Russian ancestry thing herself. Does China hold a special place for Michelle? I don't know if Canada ever did for Sarah Hughes.
This type of fandom is not only limited to the US. To suggest that Americans only like/praise Michelle Kwan because she is American is so incorrect. I remember an infamous headline after 1998 Nagano Olympics that implied Tara Lipinski, the American defeats her rival (Michelle Kwan).

Fossi said:

I've seen posts on European skating boards where the European fans trash the American skaters. I have read them praising skaters only because they are from Europe. When they say good things about American skaters they make sure to point out their European ancestry (ie: Sasha Cohen, the Russian) Although I have to say I think Sasha may have fed into the whole Russian ancestry thing herself. Does China hold a special place for Michelle? I don't know if Canada ever did for Sarah Hughes.
This type of fandom is not only limited to the US. To suggest that Americans only like/praise Michelle Kwan because she is American is so incorrect. I remember an infamous headline after 1998 Nagano Olympics that implied Tara Lipinski, the American defeats her rival (Michelle Kwan).

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Very true. It's not only limited to Americans who tout their favorites based on nationality. I believe that Michelle is immensely popular in China. At least I've read that from mzheng.

I also remember the infamous headline American defeats her rival. Oh my goodness. I was absolutely pissed when I saw that. How racist is that?

We have a new "All Events" center in Fresno called the Savemart Center. In its first year, it has seen everything from the NBA to concerts. Every performance or sporting event was sold out, except for SOI...........it's a selective sport which most people think only happens every four years at the Olympics..... :sheesh: 42

Linny said:

I was disappointed in 94 when Yuka won over Surya because I'd admired Surya for years and was hoping that her particular genius would be recognized. I'd never seen Yuka before due to limited TV coverage. Of course, since then, I've grown to adore Yuka.

I was disappointed later when Oksana won over Nancy... but, at the same time, I recognized the better skate and was thrill for the young, freshfaced girl. I'm so glad that Nancy has grown to recognize that her accomplishments are just as wonderful, especially those accomplishments off the ice... and I wish her all the best with her new child on the way.

I can fully understand a non-figure skating audience rooting for Surya at one time and for Nancy at another time. These two individuals really jump out to an audience. It's not exactly razzle-dazzle. It's just a quality that makes you like them immediately. Yuka and Oksana are different. They grow on you.

Is it really racism?

Linny

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Actually in 1994 Yuka was not the skater we got to know as a pro in later years. She had the strong basic skating skills but she was really not a skater that really drew you into her program. Her jumps were just OK. Her footwork was fantastic. She really blossomed after turning pro. The 94 worlds decision was a very close one. Surya hurt her own chances by making a couple of mistakes. Yuka benefitted from the homefield advantage.

Oksana was different. She not only had great basic skating skills, she had the deepest emotions and a fantastic flow on the ice. Her triple lutz was beautiful. She had interesting positions on the spins. She established instant rapport with the audience. Her presence on the ice was unbelievable for a 15-16 year old. It was easy to see why people fell in love with her skating.

Yuka and Oksana do not share a race, so I don't understand your last question.

Vash

Vash01 said:

Actually in 1994 Yuka was not the skater we got to know as a pro in later years. She had the strong basic skating skills but she was really not a skater that really drew you into her program. Her jumps were just OK. Her footwork was fantastic. She really blossomed after turning pro. The 94 worlds decision was a very close one. Surya hurt her own chances by making a couple of mistakes. Yuka benefitted from the homefield advantage.

Oksana was different. She not only had great basic skating skills, she had the deepest emotions and a fantastic flow on the ice. Her triple lutz was beautiful. She had interesting positions on the spins. She established instant rapport with the audience. Her presence on the ice was unbelievable for a 15-16 year old. It was easy to see why people fell in love with her skating.

Yuka and Oksana do not share a race, so I don't understand your last question.

Vash

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I am assuming (and I know how dangerous that can be) that the poster meant that neither Ms. Bonaly nor Ms. Sato, now Mrs. Dungjen, are Caucasian aka "white". For what purpose that makes any difference, I could not say.