More Sasha Cohen Updates

More Sasha Cohen updates, from her official website. Check the spiral - it's absolutely stunning - it looks like a vertical split.



http://www.sashacohen.com/news.shtml

This picture has been there for quite a while. Just like John nicks said before about Sasha "She hardly hit any ugly position...".

Interesting...

Thanks for the link, SkateFan4Life,

Of all the skaters in the world, Sasha Cohen is honestly the one I'm most curious to see, as far as how she'll do with the revised COP this year. My guess is she'll blow everyone away (if in tip top condition that is), even though yesterday I predicted Shizuka Arakawa for the overall win. But, in retrospect (this after viewing Shizuka's NHK & Worlds win over again), I must say that if the "technical specialist" wants to get picky (which I think will be the case from now on) s/he can call Shizuka's 3/3 a 3/2 based on the second triple being underrotated just a tad bit over a 1/4 (same scenario for my favorite Miki Ando btw). In fact, I think A LOT of female skaters have to contend with this (not only in 3/3s, but solo triples as well, since quite a few underrotate their solos by 1/4, which is now being penalized) and will subsequently be playing it safe.

Conversely, the above will work in Sasha Cohen's favor, as the solo triples she does are always fully rotated, as well as being super fast w/impeccable air position. But, what will place her over the top (& rightfully so) is that TCS mark -- best straight back in the business, unequaled carriage in everything she does, best spins in both quality & quantity (as well as innovativeness), superb spirals, unique entrances into her jumps (aka ina bauer, etc.), interpretation & overal presence(tation) -- IMHO she has set a new standard for that mark alone (no lie). What it will come down to is her being at peak condition & being able to land 5 or 6 solo triples. That's all she has to do b/c I see few even attempting the 3/3s (due to being downgraded & double-whammied), and even the ones that are attempting them don't equal her on the second TCS mark. Thus, I see Sasha having at the very least a 1 triple jump (more like 2 triple jump) advantage over the field, especially since falls are only deducted 1 pt., which means zilch in the grand scheme of things when someone has a 20+ pt. lead over the field. JMHO.

Peace & Love, Nadine

P.S. Odd about 1/4 underrotation being dowgraded now, especially as I've always viewed that as natural where the women are concerned, meaning they usually 'touchdown' with the front part of the blade at 1/4, then the whole blade at 1/8, and then create a nice landing edge/arc on the full turnout of the blade, so that it flows out w/nice extension. Sasha doesn't have to worry b/c she touches down at 1/8 or less, which is why she sometimes has a jarring landing due to her tendency to 'overrate', not underrotate her jumps. JMHO.

True, her triples are fully rotated. It's when she loses concentration and falls, that she does herself in. It's at a point that the surprise for me in watching Sasha is her having a clean program.

Sasha taking a lesson

If Sasha takes a lesson from Johnny in her approach to the CoPs, it might do wonders for her. She's a skater who has it all, but folds at critical times. All the skaters have pressure. It's their reaction to it that makes the difference.
Linny

Johnny has not yet faced the pressure of being chased by others. It will be interesting to see how he handles that.

I think Sasha needs more choreo in her routines than her LP at worlds 2004 if she wants to be competitive. However, more choreo could mean more mistakes. Apparently those falls are not costly at all in the COP since Phaneuf won with 2 falls. The judges might just ignore the falls and give her points for being flexible.

Vash

When the full contingent of top skaters are at Worlds...

....I doubt we'll see too many podium placements with falls - unless the whole thing is a real splatfest. IIRC, Cynthia still completed more jumps than most of the others.

DG

Lots of skaters have won GP events with falls, including Cohen and Kwan in past years. But GPs are early season events when none of the skaters are comfortable with their new programs.

But a skater can't expect to win a medal at Worlds with a two-fall program unless the competition is a veritable splatfest, and that isn't a common happening at Worlds among top skaters.

An addendum to my original post:

No, IMHO this is a whole new ballgame,

Skaters can now win with falls b/c they are only deducted 1 pt., especially if the skater excels on the second mark (i.e. TCS). Likewise, a female skater no longer has to go for a 3/3 based on the same format, since both triples are counted as solo triples & get no extra pts. for being in combination. Thus, why take the risk of going for it, especially if the second triple will most likely be downgraded & double-whammied (only if jumping is his/her strength)? No, I say skating safe is the way to go, especially if one excels on the second TCS mark, which Sasha Cohen does. In fact, to me, it appears that this new revised COP system was written with Sasha in mind. :agree:

A perfect example of the above was Cynthia Phaneuf at SkateCanada, whom won over Yoshie Onda based on the second mark (i.e. TCS). Cynthia landed 5 triples (as well as had 2 falls), as opposed to Yoshie whom landed 6 triples (w/a shakey landing on one), but whose TCS mark was quite low. 'nuff said.

Oops, one more thing, IIRC Sasha Cohen dominated the GP last year based on the second TCS mark. She didn't land as many triples as her competitors (not even Shizuka Arakawa, whom landed a 3/3), but still pulled off the win(s) based on her superior TCS mark. And since that time the COP has been revised even further so that 3/3s are being downgraded & double-whammied if 1/4 short of rotation or more, which is practically the case for all those female skaters that are doing them. Men, OTOH, never have this problem when it comes to 3/3s.

Sincerely, Nadine

Sasha is stunning and has taken skating to another level IMHO. I've followed skating for 40 years and I remember the first time I saw her skate and thinking WOW!!! My daughter (who was a skater once) and I were amazed by her beauty and flexability in skating and we have been fans ever since. It really is an emotional experience, sorta like watching a gift from God, to watch her skate for me.
I think her Nutcracker LP will be her best ever ---I loved it at Campbells and it wasn't even completed then-- so I'm looking forward to her next competition. I'm so glad Sasha will be rewarded for her beautiful technique in the future.

Peggy

It isn't true that skaters lose only 1 point per fall. If you look at the protocols, you will see that the judges also deduct from the base mark for the jump, usually a mandatory GOE of -3. So falling on a jump can really mean a minus 4, not minus 1.

It depends on how completely rotated the jump was before the fall that determines how many points the skater winds up with.

At the GPF last season, Sasha fell on a 3T and a 3F. She completely rotated the 3T, which had a base value of 4.5. She got a -2.8 deduction and received 1.87 out of the 4.5. But she didn't complete the rotation on the 3F, and it was downgraded to a 2F, worth a base value of 1.7 (instead of the 5.6 for a fully rotated 3F). After the deduction, she got only 0.77 for the jump attempt. Instead of the 10.1 points for the two jumps, she got 2.64 points. In today's CoP, she'd lose two more points for the falls.

What saved 2nd place for Sasha at last year's GPF was the PCS scores, but this season we're not seeing the 8's and 9's Sasha got at that event. However, the judges still seem to be using the PCS scores as a kind of ordinal to place skaters in the order they want them. IMO, that's defeating the purpose of the CoP, which is to give the skater an accurate picture of how well they skated. Giving a skater 9s for a FS with two falls is not doing that.

A perfect example of the above was Cynthia Phaneuf at SkateCanada, whom won over Yoshie Onda based on the second mark (i.e. TCS). Cynthia landed 5 triples (as well as had 2 falls), as opposed to Yoshie whom landed 6 triples (w/a shakey landing on one), but whose TCS mark was quite low. 'nuff said.

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Actually there wasn't much difference in Phaneufs TES and Yoshie's. In fact, less than a point seperated their TES scores. So to say that Phaneuf won completely based on her PC Scores is not really true. Yoshie could have won simply by upgrading a couple of her skills to a level 2. IMO that's where Yoshie lost was in the level of difficulty. She's a good jumper, but thats not all that the TES mark looks at. So to simply say that Skater lost on the compents mark just becuase they had more jumps than the winner, is not an accurate measurement. Jumps are not the be all and end all of figure skating technical elements.

IMO, Sasha is a top tier skater who would do better competitively (like lst place) if she changed her attitude. She should just go out there and say "I am going to skate a beautiful routine". It works for Johnny, it could work for her.

Joe

Peggy, thanks for your post!

Sure, Cohen has beautiful, difficult spins, hits jaw-dropping positions on her spirals (that have edges weaker than a lot of other top ladies). But her footwork, jumps, transitions, and choreography are all mediocre, and her skating skills just a little above average. How is the CoP so "written for her"? I don't get it.

My responses:

Peggy -- ITA, which is funny b/c at first I didn't like Sasha when she entered the scene, mainly b/c I was a huge Sarah Hughes Fan (still am btw; she is one of my all-time favorites). Also, didn't like the fact that she was being compared to another one of my all-time favorites, Oksana Baiul. Lastly, I thought she was stuck-up, pretentious, and mean, and was being overly catered to by the commentators while ignoring others (so I thought at the time). Now, in retrospect, I see how silly all that was (lol). However, I have to admit that my feelings never blinded me to the fact that she was an exceptional skater. And gradually I came to like her little by little, until one day (after Sarah Hughes left the eligible word) I just became a Fan. Thus, I was truly heartbroken when she didn't skate up to her potential @ Nationals last year (though I was happy for Michelle Kwan, whom I also admire). But, I was ecstatic for her when she finally lived up to her potential & captured a medal @ Worlds last year (her first)!

The reason I am not pleased with COP is b/c I feel it won't 'push' Sasha to live up to her athletic potential when it comes to the jumps (which I am a big fan of btw). We all know that she has set a new standard when it comes to the Presentation/TCS mark, that's a given (at least for me; have never seen someone w/her impeccable toepoint, carriage, bravura attitude; and I've been a Fan since the 70's, no lie). But what amazes me is that she is also gifted athletically as well! Her 4S that she did in practice @ 2001 SkateAmerica was the BEST I have ever seen from a lady (bar none; and that includes another all-time favorite of mine, Miki Ando's; Miki's has always been underrotated, not Sasha's). And I think why Sasha is so good w/the jumps when it comes to rotation is b/c of her "quick twitch reflex muscles" that allow her to rotate so fast, as well as in the spins. Not only is she capable of a perfectly executed 4S, but she has also proven that she is capable of 3/3s (& 3/3 sequences) as well ~ as proven the year before & after the Olympics. True, she is nowhere near consistent with them, as is true with a great many other ladies as well, but she still has done them both in practice & in competition (even if only once). Now, however, there is no more 'incentive' to do them (since 3/3s under the COP are double-whammied if 1/4 underrotated or more; also no extra pts. for doing them in combination, not to mention 3/3 sequences get less pts. than when done alone/solo), which I feel is a great loss to the skating community, especially when it comes to Sasha Cohen b/c I personally would love to see her live up to/fulfill not only her potential artistically (which she has proven over & over again), but also athletically (which she has not YET). JMHO.

***Note: My gosh, the skating world should be overjoyed to have someone of Sasha Cohen's caliber on the scene, whom is gifted not only artistically but athletically as well. Thus, my admiration & respect, and also my fandom.***

euterpe -- thanks for the added info......knew I was missing something.......which you so graciously provided. That said, I still feel that falls (which now actually receive pts.; before they never did) won't make a huge difference if one has a HUGE pt. lead after the short ~ s/he just has to only 'play it safe' in the FS in order to secure a medal, if not gold ~ JMHO. As Sasha proved last year when she dominated the Grand Prix w/less than perfect skates, and also at the GPF, where she had her worst skate (only landed a couple of 3 jumps), but still managed to secure the silver medal! :agree: All due to her phenomenal TCS mark, also TES mark, which took into account her extraordinary spins, carriage, spirals, presence, style, innovativeness, entrances into jumps, position, et al.

BravesSkateFan -- true, true, thanks for the extra clarification. You stated perfectly what I meant to say ~ jumps are not the be all & end all, never have been, even in the old system. That said, let's be honest, Yoshie (whom I am a big Fan of btw) will never garner the TCS scores that someone like Sasha Cohen will nor even Cynthia Phaneuf I'm afraid. It's just not her strength (never has been). And she's been competing for a loooooooooong time now. And the first mark, as you said, not only takes into account 3jumps, but other things as well, which Yoshie is not good at, no matter how pleasing & charming her personality is out on the ice. That's life. If everybody skated clean, including Yoshie, she will not win. Period. Btw, despite Yoshie's athletic prowess, she has yet to land a 3/3 in competition, likewise a 3A. Still, that will never prevent me from enjoying her skating nor her charm. I am a Fan, and always will be.

Joesitz, ITA about Sasha being "a top tier skater" ~ no ifs/whats/buts about it.

shine -- we must agree to disagree, b/c IMHO Sasha is not mediocre when it comes to footwork, jumps, transition, choreography, and skating skills. No way. It's b/c she is so good in so many areas that she can miss jumps and still stand on the podium. And as far as the COP being written for her, to me it is quite obvious. Falls don't mean as much in this new system, despite what others say, especially if one has a HUGE pt. lead after the SP, which works in Sasha's favor. Additionally, 3/3s (which is not Sasha's strength) are less important in this new COP system ~ no extra pts. for doing them in combo., each triple is counted only as a solo & then added together, and now most importantly if underrotated by 1/4 or more, they are downgraded & double-whammied ~ which again works in Sasha's favor. In fact, I feel with this new revised COP system, Sasha would have captured her first World Title last year, as Shizuka Arakawa's 3/3s were underrotated by more than a 1/4, which is now being taken into account this season. All this factored in works to Sasha's favor, especially as she is the Queen when it comes to the second TCS mark (& is great as well on the TES mark as well). JMHO, of course.

Peace & Love, Nadine

Sorry, I have no problem recognizing that Cohen is one of the best when it comes to Performance/execution (if not THE best), but I don't see what she does with her footwork, jumping, transitions, skating skills or choreogrpahy that sets them above the others'. They are adequate, but nothing exceptional. To me, most of her PC scores were hugely overmarked last season.

shine said:

Sure, Cohen has beautiful, difficult spins, hits jaw-dropping positions on her spirals (that have edges weaker than a lot of other top ladies). But her footwork, jumps, transitions, and choreography are all mediocre, and her skating skills just a little above average. How is the CoP so "written for her"? I don't get it.

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ITA. Sasha is a beautiful skater with amazing flexibility, but skating is more than that. Her spins are outstanding. The choreography is so so. When Tarasova made it competitive, she eventually reverted to a simpler choreography after she had problems performing in major competitions. She often gets marked high because she gives such a pleasing appearance, due to her flexibility. Judges should really be marking edge quality, and not just how flexible a skater is. Don't get me wrong. Sasha is among the top 3-4 lady skaters today, but I don't see her as benefitting by the COP if the rules are followed. Chances are they will not be followed, and she will get high components scores.

Vash

Mainly Sasha really needs a technique expert to get her flip, lutz, and the 3/2 combo fixed. This is her major problem. The other problems can be fix later.

I really hope that since Sasha has more free time and not overworking herself with multiple revolutions, she and Robin will be working on her techniques and edges. She has many inventive and innovative spins but her inconsistency will be a major drawback considering Irina is quite reliable on her jumps and Shizuka got TT to fully CoP out her programs.

Last year, judges were extremely generous however this season is not the same case. There will definitely be more tweaking and changes in the following seasons with CoP. Perhaps CoP will emphasize good techniques on the lutz and flip next season and penalized those with bad techniques. I also hope that they'll redo CoP to credit those who skated clean. I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing a splatfest program wins. Those falls completely disrupt the flow of the program. Ex: the men are so hung up on doing a quad that they fall on a simple Triple toe!! What is that!

Sorry to rant. Anyway can't wait for Marshall's and see how Sasha, Jenny and of course Michelle's program have evolved.