When will Johnny be taken seriously?

Jaana · Nov 25, 2004

I have to wait until somebody puts a direct link for that Cranston programme. I have a horror about going to Rinkside, LOL.

I have watched figure skating since about 1964 (or 1963), but got interested in the men´s competition only after John Curry came onto the scene. Of course there were around that time and afterwards some other interesting skaters too. I liked Cranston, but not so much as Curry´s skating.

Marjaana

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 25, 2004

The bottom line here is, there is no girl that he skates like but there are many girls who would like to skate like him.

Joe

Mathman · Nov 25, 2004

Girls who skate like girls:

The porcelain doll / exquisite flower category: Sasha Cohen, Yukina Ota, Katia Gordeeva.

The cute as a button category: Irina Slutskaya, Yoshie Onda, Josee Chouinard.

The "sex is a hoot!" category: Katarina Witt, Nicole Bobek, Jamie Sale.

The "class act all the way" category: Kristi Yamaguchi, Dorothy Hamill.

My favorite skating book, Culture on Ice by Ellyn Kestnbaum, advances the thesis that all performance skating is "feminine," whereas school figures represent the "masculine" side of the sport.

How so? Well, the point of school figures is "man imposing his will on nature" by carving his signature into the virgin ice. Sort of like chopping up Mount Rushmore and putting your face on it.

Skating for an audience, on the other hand, is more like harem girls trying to please their master.

(This is the neo-feminist view made popular in the 1970s, LOL.)

Mathman

bronxgirl · Nov 25, 2004

MM,
Where would you place Michelle in those categories? (Just my own curiosity)

Mathman · Nov 25, 2004

To me, Michelle represents everything that is wholesome and wonderful, respite from past pain, joy in the moment and a future filled with hope. God's in his heaven and all's right with the world.

MM

floskate · Nov 25, 2004

PrincessLeppard said:
Pixie, Toni, if you don't like that style, that's fine, but to call it "girly" or "feminine" is just wrong on so many levels. It's 2004. Can we please accept that elegance is not a strictly feminine trait?

Amen to that!!!! :rock:

Mathman · Nov 25, 2004

Bronxgirl, now that I've got that out of my system, LOL, I would say this about Michelle. To me, she is not a "girly" skater at all. I think her skating, breathtaking in it's elegance and flow, nevertheless is overlaid with a certain tomboy athleticism.

Plus, when she plays at being alluring, to me it's just that -- playing at something. The sparkle in her eyes gives her away. She still takes the same delight in performing that she did at fifteen.

Mathman

RIskatingfan · Nov 25, 2004

This sort of posts saying Weir's skating is girlish or effeminate and how that is (the drama) so bad, always reminds me of that kind of people who go to the ballet and spend the entire time making comments on the male dancers (how they look girlish and must be gay) instead of appreciating the show.

Rgirl · Nov 26, 2004

There's already five pages of "icky girly" vs. "elegant no matter what" (my heart is with the latter, in case anybody had any doubts) so I won't add anything except to say I've absolutely LOVED Johnny's skating since last season's Nationals. To me, he is an ideal balance of artistry and athleticism, and that's even if he never does a quad.

As for comments about how his style "looks gay" -- puh-lease. :sheesh:
Rgirl

hockeyfan228 · Nov 26, 2004

Jaana said:
I have just seen videoclips from Weir´s SP and LP, and I´m feeling really enthusiastic about the programmes and his skating. He is a really expressive skater, there is so much sensitive feeling and also power (when needed) in his skating and interpreting. WOW, what a guy!!!

I have always appreciated skaters like e.g. Weir, Plushenko, Lambiel, Buttle and Sandhu with whom I can see a true and genuine interpretation and feeling towards the music flowing directly from the skater´s own person and not being just something based on a cleverly planned choreography combined with athletism. There is a huge difference, in my opinion. Besides all these guys have an elegant looking bodytype on the ice.

Marjaana

sk8fanconvert · Nov 27, 2004

3 cheers for girly men

Rgirl said:
There's already five pages of "icky girly" vs. "elegant no matter what" (my heart is with the latter, in case anybody had any doubts) so I won't add anything except to say I've absolutely LOVED Johnny's skating since last season's Nationals. To me, he is an ideal balance of artistry and athleticism, and that's even if he never does a quad.

As for comments about how his style "looks gay" -- puh-lease. :sheesh:
Rgirl

Joke (since inflection and tone are hard to communicate over the web, and I'd rather not describe every arch of my eyebrows...):
Face it! gay people are just sooooooooo much better! If you "look gay" you will win the style points, right? If you can't be gay, at least try to be gay-acting!

But seriously:
I for one LOVE Johnny's skating as well as his personal style (I think some are confusing the two). Narrow-minded people, particularly in America, think men should be men- i.e. unemotional (except anger or aggression), tough, powerful, insensitive, unrefined.... we can go on with the masculine/feminine dichotomy. It's a powerful 'should'- it's not necessarily how people 'are'.

For me: hooray for a guy who skates without being inhibited by a narrow culture's idea of 'masculine' (whatever his sexual identity); hooray for sissy boys and girly men; hooray for embracing your own identity and style.

JonnyCoop · Nov 27, 2004

I think an interesting point has been touched on in this discussion. Johnny IS being taken seriously by most skating fans, IMO, BUT the fact that he's not shown in Nationals advertising is very interesting. But not surprising. The USFSA has a tradition of not exactly pushing skaters who they even perceive to be gay. The fact that Johnny's image has sparked some of the preceding discussion would put him into this category, whether he is or not. The USFSA would much rather have a Weiss as a representative of the "real American male skater" than a Weir, and I think it goes beyond style. I'm sure they have a lot to do with the fact that Lisa Weiss gets shown at least 7 times per competion, too.

This way of thinking, IMO, nearly destroyed Christopher Bowman. The USFSA HAD to have had at least an inkling of all the problems he was having, but yet they ignored them and basically enabled him to keep self-destructing instead of laying down the law and telling him to either get it together or get out, which might have been a wake-up call for him. (Then again, with Bowman, who knows?) But the USFSA was so thrilled to have a bona-fide STRAIGHT MAN representing them that they tolerated the behavior.

Interesting related side note: One of the factors that prompted Rudy Galindo to turn pro when he did, was the fact that despite being reigning National champion, he wasn't assigned to skate at Skate America; they sent him off to Germany and Russia. How often does the reigning National Champion NOT get assigned to Skate America?? And notice how Johnny didn't get assigned Skate America this year, either. I think Johnny will probably always get more recognition from the international skating community and skating fans in general than he'll probably ever get from the USFSA, quad or no quad.

JonnyCoop · Nov 27, 2004

ADDENDUM:

And if anyone buys into my 'USFSA prefers masculine image' theory -- the fact that he looks 12 doesn't exactly do him any favors, either, regardless of his skating style.

Grgranny · Nov 27, 2004

You know, effiminate men are not always gay. I've known several who were married and have families. One in this community is really good at flower arranging, etc. but nowhere near being gay.

Mathman · Nov 27, 2004

Hmm. I didn't notice that about the U.S. Nationals advertising, but I just went to the Rose Garden Web Site. They have Michelle, Sasha and Tim at the top. Men pictured are Tim again, Michael Weiss and Ryan Jahnke. I don't know about Tim, but Michael and Ryan are both married (to women).

The site for Marshalls just has Michelle (looking quite pretty and buff, BTW).

Mathman

mpal2 · Nov 27, 2004

JonnyCoop said:
Interesting related side note: One of the factors that prompted Rudy Galindo to turn pro when he did, was the fact that despite being reigning National champion, he wasn't assigned to skate at Skate America; they sent him off to Germany and Russia. How often does the reigning National Champion NOT get assigned to Skate America?? And notice how Johnny didn't get assigned Skate America this year, either. I think Johnny will probably always get more recognition from the international skating community and skating fans in general than he'll probably ever get from the USFSA, quad or no quad.

Johnny had mentioned coaching conflicts that dictated some of his GP assignments. I believe that Priscilla had a skater at a lower level competing in another event that would have conflicted with an earlier GP event for Johnny. Does anyone know the specifics?

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 28, 2004

I think the USFSA would ask the National Champions which GPs they wanted to skate. I can't think of any reason they didn't do that for either Rudy or Johnny.

Joe

JonnyCoop · Nov 28, 2004

Well, supposedly they didn't do it for Rudy -- he claims they didn't; as for Johnny, I'm only hypothesizing as I don't know the full story. I just did think it was a bit odd that he was the only reigning National champ not to be there (excluding Kwan, which is an entirely different tangent altogether...)

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 28, 2004

Grgranny said:
You know, effiminate men are not always gay. I've known several who were married and have families. One in this community is really good at flower arranging, etc. but nowhere near being gay.

My cousin married a hair dresser with all the stereotype behaviour that goes with being a hairdresser. They have 3 daughters and 2 sons. You figure.
(By the way he makes a lot of money.)

Joe

Jaana · Nov 28, 2004

Joesitz said:
I think the USFSA would ask the National Champions which GPs they wanted to skate. I can't think of any reason they didn't do that for either Rudy or Johnny.

Joe

I think it is not just a chance Johnny being scheduled to appear in same GP events as his hardest competitors. Unfortunately he met Plushenko only in Cup of Russia.

Marjaana

When will Johnny be taken seriously?

Jaana

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

bronxgirl

Mathman

floskate

Mathman

RIskatingfan

Rgirl

hockeyfan228

sk8fanconvert

JonnyCoop

JonnyCoop

Grgranny

Da' Spellin' Homegirl

Mathman

mpal2

Joesitz (RIP)

JonnyCoop

Joesitz (RIP)

Jaana

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