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Thread: A question with the new system???

  1. #1
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    A question with the new system???

    I would like to know what should happen this year at worlds to have two women representing Canada at the 2006 Olympics??? I know that women skating in Canada have been much better since the last Olympics, yes we had Jennifer Robinson who was a fighter but has done what she could with her potential and capabilities on the international scene but now we see the Joanie Rochette and Also Cynthia Phaneuf who is even younger then Rochette by 2 years I believe, so if they would place a rank totolling 13, would we have two women for Olympics<?? Would that be great???? When in 98 we din't even send a women even if we could, skate canada felt that we did not have someone good enough on the international scene to represent us well, Jennifer Robinson was just begenning to grow has a skater. I've seen her (Jennifer) live and she is a fighter but she is not a great skater, there was always something missing, yes she did improved in her jumps, much higher, this is why she is a fighter, she never quits, but when you see her live, when she skates, she skates very slowly, her jumps are always programmed, you know what is coming up with her.

    I just love the style of Joannie Rochette, she is the best IMO, she is delicate, has grace, great jumps, manage well the pressure, she medal the first year she came to Seniors and medal since, I believe she is our next champion in Canada, last year was Cynthia Phaneuf, I feel that Cynthia is a great skater too, good technique, the only thing I do not like of her, is the stiffness that we feel when she skates, in her upper body, I'de like to see more relaxed shoulder and more maturity, but she is just 16, until the olympics, beetween joannie and her, we could maybe have our first Olympic gold medal for canada in women. Joannie when she skates, it does seem easy, she remind me all the time Angela Nikodinov, they almost have the same physique, they have about the same flow accross the ice. We will see....

    But I would like to have the answer to my question about the placement for 2 women to the olympics,,, I think if it is still the same, that it will have to cumulate 13, the placement of the two girls, 13. So let say second and 10, 11, anything that add up to 13.

    Mathman could be able to answer that for me. I'm sure he knows.

  2. #2
    All Hail Queen Yu-Na!!!!!! SailorGalaxia518's Avatar
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    Basically, one of the skaters should be in the top 10. I don't think they really need to be but just to make sure. They are really going to have to be close to the top 10.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    *Bump*

    I'm bumping this up in the hope that someone will know the answer to Chania's question about what the Canadian ladies have to do to qualify 2 (or 3) ladies for the Olympics.

    I know the old rule used to be, like Sailor Galaxia says, if a skater places on the podium her country gets three for the next worlds or Olympics, and if you place in the top 10 you get two places. But now, I think Chania is right that your total team has to come in at certain level of points. I remember everyone was mad at Dan Hollander because he did not do well enough to qualify three American men in Nagano.

    Does anyone know the exact formula?

    Mathman

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    Hi Chania

    As I remember, in order for us to send 2 ladies to the Olympics we must have a skater in the top 10 at worlds. For us to send 3 skaters, we must have 2 ladies with finishes totalling 13. I have a feeling this could very easily happen for us this year.... a 5th and an 8th or 6th and 7th is NOT unrealistic.

    If anyone is aware, there was a great deal of controversy last year over the decision to send Jennifer to Worlds instead of Cynthia. Skate Canada felt that Jennifer was our greatest hope to land in the top 10, thus enabling 2 skaters at Worlds this year. Thank goodness Joannie pulled through with an 8th because it ended up being her that secured us the opportunity to send 2 this year which gives us a shot at the magic number needed to send 3 to Olympics. Now THAT would be exciting!

    Canuck

  5. #5
    All Hail Queen Yu-Na!!!!!! SailorGalaxia518's Avatar
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    I think that both Cynthia Phaneuf and Joannie Rochette will have no problem finishing in the top 10 at worlds

  6. #6
    In my heart, I'm actually Canadian....
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    You DEFINITELY have to have someone in the top 10 to send 2. I don't think there has been any change in the basic overall "point calculations" for how many go based on placements. Though I do think at some point -- I may be wrong about this -- that if a country sends 3 entrants to Worlds, only the top 2 placements count, so as to avoid someone losing a spot in the event of a bad qualifying round or a withdrawal due to injury (bearing in mind that Russia lost a men's spot in Nagano because Urmanov withdrew.) As I said, though, this may not be correct. However, the Chinese men finished 5th, 6th, and 15th at the 2001 Worlds and still got 3 Olympic spots; I think at one point that would have only gotten them 2.

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    There's a lot of mistakes, so I'll try to explain this as clear as I can.

    Placements for men & ladies at Worlds/Euros/World Juniors all get a certain amount of 'points', using this chart:

    1-16 = placement is # of points (1st is 1, 13th is 13, etc)
    17-24 = 16 points
    25-30 = 18 points (did not qualify for LP)
    31-# = 20 points (did not qualify for SP)

    If there's one entry at Worlds:
    1-2 points = 3 spots for the following season
    3-10 points = 2 spots
    11-20 points = 1 spot

    If there's two entries at Worlds:
    3-13 points = 3 spots for the following season
    14-28 points = 2 spots
    29-40 points = 1 spot

    If there's three entries at Worlds, you use the TOP TWO finishers of the three..:
    3-13 points = 3 spots for the following season
    14-28 points = 2 spots
    29-40 points = 1 spot

    Therefore... just a note that if you have two skaters that go to Worlds, a 13th and 15th place finish would be enough to keep the two, so no, you don't HAVE to have one finish in the top 10!

    However, with all of that being said, I don't know how the new CoP system and the way the rounds are run during Worlds are going to affect this point system, if at all.

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    For those who are interested...

    2005 Worlds: Men:
    RUS 1+12 = 13 ; 3 spots
    FRA 2+9 = 11 ; 3 spots
    USA 5+6 = 11 ; 3 spots
    GER 3 = 3 ; 2 spots
    SUI 4+20 = 24 ; 2 spots
    CHN 7+10 = 17 ; 2 spots
    CAN 8+13 = 21 ; 2 spots
    JPN 11+16 = 27 ; 2 spots
    All other = 1 spot

    2005 Worlds: Ladies:
    JPN 1+4 = 5 ; 3 spots
    USA 2+3 = 5 ; 3 spots
    ITA 5+16 = 21 ; 2 spots
    HUN 6 = 6 ; 2 spots
    CAN 8+14 = 22 ; 2 spots
    RUS 9+10 = 19 ; 2 spots
    All other = 1 spot

    2005 Worlds: Pairs:
    RUS 1+4 = 5 ; 3 spots
    CHN 2+3 = 5 ; 3 spots
    POL 6 = 6 ; 2 spots
    CAN 8+9 = 17 ; 2 spots
    USA 10+13 = 23 ; 2 spots
    All other = 1 spot

    2005 Worlds: Dance:
    RUS 1+10 = 11 ; 3 spots
    BUL 2 = 2 ; 3 spots
    GER 3 = 3 ; 2 spots
    UKR 4+16 = 20 ; 2 spots
    USA 5+12 = 17 ; 2 spots
    FRA 6+16 = 22 ; 2 spots
    ISR 7+15 = 22 ; 2 spots
    CAN 8+11 = 19 ; 2 spots
    ITA 9 = 9 ; 2 spots
    All other = 1 spot

  9. #9
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Thank you Tony for the chart. It will be a big assistance in thinking this out in the future.

    I understans now why Susanna Poykio's 12th place at worlds would not qualify two skaters because Susanna was the only one in the competition.

    Joe

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    Maximum points

    Suzie tried to answer a question about maximum points and she didn't actually answer it. She made it sound as if there is a max for the PCS but not for the TCS... however, if the CoPs is examined, there really is a maximum for the TCS....

    First, you'd have to count the maximum number of elements. There is a maximum number of jumping passes, right? Then, assume that they did as many quads as possible and got plus 3 for each jump.

    For the maximum number of spins, I guess you'd have to time approximately how long it takes to perform the minimum number of revolutions in a spin and figure out how many they could perform within the total time allowed, minus the time already used for the maximum number of jumping passes.

    Is there a maximum number of footwork sequences?

    So, who out there is wants to take on this question? Do you think there really is a maximum number of points that a skater can get for the TCS portion of the program?

    Linny

  11. #11
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Thanks, Tony Wheeler. I knew if we could keep this thread alive long enough we could get the straight dope!

    Now, what about Linny's question, LOL?

    Mathman

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