Need advice...

I could really use some objective viewpoints here. I discovered today that a close friend of mine bought a second home a few months ago--behind my back--without using me as her agent. She has often told me that she would love to send clients my way--she sent a couple who were not at all serious buyers.

I found out quite by accident. Not to brag, but just to give a clearer picture, I am not a beginning agent. I am a very successful agent, top 5% of my entire company nationwide. I am also not one of those agents who pawns people off onto underlings. My business partner and I do everything from start of a transaction to its completion--a very personalized approach to business that has worked out very well for us.

I cannot even begin to describe how hurt I am--I actually had tears in my eyes when I checked the tax records to verify the sale (I almost never cry). It's not as though she went to the listing agent--she used someone completely different, someone who is not located in the area of purchase.

I sent her a copy of the listing via email with a brief note: "Congratulations, looks very nice." Yeah, childish, I know, dripping with irony. Worse, I have to go to a party tonight and she will be there. I have a big, mean mouth when I'm angry, and I'm very angry. I've been a very good friend to these people--we socialize on a regular basis. We belong to the same synagogue.

One more facet that may or may not be relevant, she likes to sing and I realize that she is a bit jealous that I am the main singer at our synagogue. On the other hand, she's always been very complimentary about my singing and I truly believed her to be genuine.

I just don't have any desire to continue this friendship. As far as I am concerned it is over. :sheesh:

RG,

Wow, do I feel for you - how hurt you must feel

Of course, the obvious thing to say to you is to go to her and be totally up front and honest and tell her exactly how you feel. She may have a very legitimate reason, although I can't possibly imagine what it would be.

Perhaps there are marital problems and this was a very secretive transaction leading to something else.....

Perhaps there were some financial issues with the purchase which she may have not wanted you privy to.....

Perhaps it is downright jealousy and she didn't want you to see a dime of her money.......

The only way to truly assess the situation is to talk to her. I know how hurt you feel, but I think you need to take a step back and examine your friendship to see just how important it is to you. I suspect from what you have said that she may not be as close a friend as you originally thought if something like this would make you want to disolve the relationship so quickly. You have already indicated there is jealousy on her part in regards to the singing issue so perhaps this is far more deep seeded than just simply your being the lead singer in your synagogue.

Additionally, I don't think your email to her was either inapropriate or childish at all. I think you needed to make her aware that you knew of the sale, and I think that was a tactful way to do it.

All the best to you and I hope that she has a VERY good reason for disapointing our RG!

Canuck

Realtorgal, Since you asked for objective viewpoints, I'll try to ask a few questions that may help:

Do you specialize in vacation properties? Do you specialize in vacation properties in the area where your friend bought her second home? And does she know whether you do?

As a person who bought a second home (that has since become my primary residence), people often are buying in an area where they are not too familiar with the ins and outs and are looking more for a local expert to help them. Buying a house, even a second home, is a huge financial deal for people, and the biggest fear is that you will get it wrong somehow, not that you will annoy one of your friends.

Also, she's a friend, but was the agent she chose also a friend of hers? So many people are in real estate that it is often the case that a person has to chose between two friends, invariably annoying the one you don't chose, but there is no third road in that case, other than annoying both by picking neither.

Of course your email wasn't out of line. But you might ask your friend why she picked someone else. Especially if you are dumping the friendship over this, you might want to know why she thought you would not do a good job for her, just as a business issue. You might either save the friendship or learn something that will help your business!

I would be very upset as well!
However, maybe there is one thing you should find out before you make any rash decisions about ending friendship...
IS there a good reason why she chose someone else?
Maybe a relative of hers pressured her into using someone else or it was a relative or close friend that was the realtor?
Of course, that doesn't mean she couldn't have come to you and explained "we're buying another home and so-n'so is pressuring me into using this realtor" or something along those lines.

Sorry, but I am LOL at your closing paragraph. Did it ever occur to you that she doesn't care to continue a "friendship" with you? You say you have a big, mean mouth when you get angry. Well, who have you been shooting it off to? I'm guessing it was the wrong person at the wrong time & they went back & relayed info to her which made her decide it was time to ease out of the "friendship". Another tho't...are you by any chance a "high powered saleswoman"? I, personally, shut down when anyone begins to high pressure me into buying a product.
If you were truly her friend, who she chooses to do business with should not have any effect on that friendship. One should never try to manipulate or dictate to true friends. Frankly, I have my doubts as to whether you were friends. More likely just acquaintances.

I can appreciate how you feel about this as similar things have happened to me and people I know.
Some people have an aversion to doing business with their friends. The logic goes that If something went wrong then your relationship would really be in trouble. I come from a family of lawyers and some of our family friends have used this arguement. My brother had his best friend handle his divorce. My sister in law ended up taking him to the cleaners and she didn't even have a lawyer. My brother chose to keep the friendship but is now drowning in debt and can't pay his lawyer's fee.
It's also possible that it never occured to her that you would be interested in the transaction. If someone knows you in a social context they sometimes don't have the imagination to see you in a professional context. This has happened to me more than I would like to admit. I was a free-lance graphic designer and a lot of my friends would go straight to the printer to do their design work.
Even with all these possibilities in mind, I would still feel the way you do!
If you can't get the anger out of your system before the party--dont go!
It's better for your professional and social reputation if you can keep your emotions in check.

Thanks, folks. Let's see if I can clarify or answer a few points you raised. First of all, Merrywidow, we are not just acquaintances. We have coffee together fairly often, just us two gal pals. We have holiday celebrations together in each other's homes. Our daughters sleep over at each others homes fairly often. She does not hesitate to ask me to take her daughter if she's stuck, and I would not hesitate to ask her either should there ever be a need. So, no, we're not just acquaintances. We are quite involved in each others' lives on a regular basis.

No, I'm not one of those aggressive sales types, but I had to laugh when I read that just picturing myself in that role! I do know the type! The only time I get aggressive is for the people I am already working for. Also, as far as friendships go, I make it a point not to bring up real estate unless asked. I know agents who constantly pester their friends for referrals and I, frankly, find that a big turn off. I know a gal who constantly badgered me to buy Mary Kay cosmetics every single time I saw or spoke to her. It got to be ridiculous. I would never inflict that on my own friends.

Also, yes, she has every right to use whatever Realtor she sees fit. It's just funny because not too long ago during one of our coffee gabs, she told me how awful the last two Realtors were that she used and she and I discussed the merits of using an agent that actually cares about you and your well-being as opposed to a stranger. (I happen to know both agents she used before we were friends and let's just say that I was not surprised by her comments about them.)

I did see her last night and refrained from saying a word. It was a party, and it would have been a completely inappropriate place for a discussion.

NJS, you are correct--there may have been a reason. Then why not just tell me about how happy she is with her new house and why she felt the need to use someone else? We share all happy events in each others' lives--obviously, this one she left out for a reason.

Doris, all excellent points. I do sell all over San Diego county. The agent she used is not based any closer to the property she bought than I am. You are right that a discussion would be in order before kissing her off for good.

Canuck, all your points are excellent!

Ironically, she has commented to me on many occasions that she would love to send more referrals my way. Again, these comments were not made at my prodding; rather, of her own volition.

You are all very sweet for taking the time to help me work through this. I have to tell you truthfully that this was not at all about the money (none of which would have come out of her pocket, since the seller pays all commissions). It is about friendship and loyalty. We have many acquaintances in life and if we're lucky, a few close friends. She was, or so I thought, in the latter category. That is why I am so very hurt.

Thanks, Flora. You must have been posting while I was composing my own response. I know what you mean about doing business with friends, and in part I understand that objection. On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone caring as much about your well-being than a friend. If I were a beginning agent, I'd be inclined to understand, but this is not the case. Also, this is a fairly high-end property, and I have sold many homes in that price range, particularly in the past year.

I don't know what else to add. Perhaps she felt uncomfortable using you as an agent since you would then have to know more about her financial situation. I think only my boss, his boss, HR & the IRS know exactly how much I make. Only 1 of my friends at work has a ballpark idea of how much my salary is - and that's only because we used to date and he had access to the payroll files (which have since been locked down.)

Hope you are able to resolve this since your daughters are such close friends.

RealtorGal,

You seem to have your head on straight to me. I have read many of your posts and you do not seem like and unreasonable person. SO, independent successful, witty woman that you are, ASK YOUR FRIEND. Be straight up with her and stop torturing yourself, and speculating, and be honest with her and yourself. What are you afraid of? At worst, she may say something that hurts, but that is a growing opportunity. Friendships take work just like any other relationship. Either way it is a growing opportunity because you will be a big enough girl to face something that is bothering you, and you may even deepen your friendship. Not asking is the biggest mistake that you can make. And don't get all drama if you don't like what she has to say. She has a right to her own feelings, just like you.

Keep us posted on the outcome, and seek first to understand, then to be understood.

Realtor Gal; - Continue to be friends. God knows losing a friend is as emotional as losing a spouse. And do get into asking her what it was about the property that she could not have asked for your advice as a friend before she went ahead with the deal.

I am almost sure if she is a close friend she will explain it all and it will help you to not think of the worst. If she doesn't explain it well, then maybe there was not that much friendship on her part to begin with.

Joe

When you ask don't be very hostile-sounding in your voice, or she may back out and stop speaking to you.

You do sound like a very reasonable person, imo.

RealtorGal, I've stated on many occations how much I appreciate your even handedness when judging situations. That being said, when the MP fiasco happened and you had such issues, you admitted that it was an internal issue that you were having trouble with and that you knew it was irrational, but you still felt distressed anyway.

Being highly internally driven, I've also had to look at my "inner dwellings" for answers with people in my "external world." I can't make this assumption for you, however I will say in my own case that I have unreasonably high expectations when it comes to friends. Is this a "litmus test" issue for your friendship. If so, why? I TOTALLY get that you are close. Perhaps you are closer to her than she is to you. Perhaps "loyalty" means something different to her than to you. Perhaps you're hurt because she doesn't have the same level of sensitivity as you and she didn't even think about you when it came time( that in your eyes) she should have. Also, don't real estate deals come in all sorts of weird configurations...it may be that she found a place and was too embarrassed to tell you that the contract was written so that only the single agent representing the property was allowed to negotiate the contract. As the above posters have suggested, there may be many reasons she did what she did, but you will not know them until you ask in a "friendship-like" way. Even then she may elect to not to tell you the entire truth because of HER enternal issues. If it's been ingrained in her "Never risk a friendship by doing business with a friend, NEVER NEVER NEVER" and this has been drilled into her head since she was young, then this would have nothing to do with you, however, you still get hurt by not knowing why.

My last suggestion is, since you are an analytical type (we recognize each other in shopping malls, ya know ) that you make a list of what you have gained from the friendship and measure it against a list of what she's done wrong and get a comparative view on this. You may find that one hurt can be forgiven with some work, however a friendship may be lost forever if you don't. I adore you and your posts and if I'm ever in the market for a house in SD County (as if I could ever afford it) I'll surely look you up. smoochers, your sk8m8, Mark

Hi RGal...

Just wondering how things have progressed and if you were able to talk things over with your friend. I've been thinking of your situation since I've always found business dealings with personal friends to be a sometimes tricky subject.

Hope all is well and you were able to sort things out.

DG

Read the whole thread. I have to go with whoever said not doing bussiness with your close friends. Usually I will pass bussiness optunities to my freinds. But not my own bussiness for the reasons 1) I don't take any chance that possible bad bussiness result ruines our friendship. 2) Not like expose my financial state to any others except my family members.

I did confront her and she admitted that she had had a bad experience with a former friend so they prefer not to do business with friends. I know that particular agent, and as it happens, I told him off once myself for doing something rotten to us as well when we moved to San Diego (and she knew about this experience of mine). Now, I would believe her except for the fact that at the same time that she was buying this expensive second home, she had called me to tell me that her mother in law, who was living in a condo they owned, was dying and they would need to either rent or sell the condo and would I help because, as she put it, "I would, of course, want you to benefit from this." I reminded her of this and she basically had no real answer. She knows that I have sold a number of homes in the $1 million range, so the reason was not the price difference. Frankly, you either do business with friends or not. It was more the lying and deceit that got to me--I know she forgot all about that condo issue, and her claim about wanting to keep the purchase private was bogus because as it turns out, EVERYONE but me seemed to know about it! I prefer to remain nothing more than acquaintances with her from now on. If our daughters want to stay friends, that's fine, and I told her so, but that's it for me.

Mzheng, I understand your feelings about doing business with friends; I had a similar situation with a friend a few years back. Very intelligent woman, ran her own property mgmt. firm, graduate of law school. She was new in the mortgage brokering business and I wanted to refinance my home. At first I thought that I would be uncomfortable with her knowing so much about my finances, but then I looked in my heart and decided that my friendship with her was more important than my insecurity about her knowing how much money I earn. So I asked her to do the job and she was thrilled. My husband was fine with it, too, because he respected our friendship and my trust in her to do a good job (she did).

I just wanted to say that unless your real estate agent does your loan as well, there is no way should they know anything about your finances. The price range of your house does not necessarily reveal your income. Once the transaction goes through the town clerk, the price of your new house is a public knowledge!

I personally would always want a friend to benefit from my business. However, the same rules do not apply to a casual acquaintance. This was clearly a case of a "friend" who does not believe in things like that. I wouldn't want to be friends with people who are deceitful and go behind my back.

Glad you confronted her, though. At least she doesn't have the satisfaction of knowing that she "outsmarted" her - b/c that's how these people feel.

Yana

STL_Blues_fan said:

I just wanted to say that unless your real estate agent does your loan as well, there is no way should they know anything about your finances. The price range of your house does not necessarily reveal your income. Once the transaction goes through the town clerk, the price of your new house is a public knowledge!

Yana

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You are so right on all counts! I have no idea what my clients earn. I rely on the mortgage broker to tell me where they qualify in terms of price. The details of their finances are between the clients and the person handling the loan. My former friend was mortified that I knew what she paid for the house. Well, NEWS FLASH: These are PUBLIC records. Your property tax records are PUBLIC. Your refinance is PUBLIC RECORD. What you paid for your house is PUBLIC RECORD. If your home is in a trust, that is noted on the PUBLIC RECORDS. These tax records are actually accessible to ANYONE, not just real estate agents. I know someone who is not an agent but she snoops through these records via computer whenever she feels like it.

Our newspaper lists all property sales including the names of the buyer, seller, and price.

I'm going out on a limb here and say that this whole incident was a result of sexism on your friend's behalf.
It's a good example of the way women tend to treat other women in business.
For the most part you don't see men saying they don't want to do business with friends. But women say that all the time and get away with it like it makes sense.
Men tend not to separate "friends" and business contacts they seem to be one in the same. Women are always very careful to make distinctions.
I think men and women make friends using different criteria.
Men build relationships on trust and they tend to do stuff together, like play golf, rather than talk. If a guy's got an honest golf game how can you not trust him?
Men don't talk much among themselves because they think revealing persoal information can make them vulnerable to attack even with their friends.
Women are more likely to build relationships on talk and shared percieved values. We tend to reveal a lot about ourselves to our friends and therefore set ourselves up for the possibility of attack. If we are honest about our flaws with our friends how could they possible choose someone that flawed for a business transaction?
Women have come a long way in business but I think there is still the general perception that any male is preferable to a great female. Our female friends sometimes take that to the next level and assume even a strange female is preferable to a female friend.

Gee I sound cranky--need more coffee.