The Women's Competition at Marshalls | Page 2 | Golden Skate

The Women's Competition at Marshalls

rtureck

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Joesitz said:
I don't think of these comps as real medal winnings.


Sasha has a very nice routine, albeit 'standard Sasha'. Nothing showing as different from last year.

Sasha Cohen has been hibernating in her comfort zone re: her music choice for years... ZZZZZ


Her romance with Tschaikowsky works for her
Romance with Tchaikovsky is dangerous. Cohen should consult the ghost of Bob Davidov or the ghost of A. Miliakova, j/k

but I would like to see her take on a Bela Bartok number just to see if she is versatile.
:rofl: Bartok is really a stretch for her. She does not have the maturity, the intellectual stamina, or the emotional nuance for Bartok. Cohen has been skating for years to the top 50 classical pieces. Tchaikovsky had a gift for melody, second to none or maybe second only to Mozart. PIT could write a jingle, and people love his jingles. Cohen has been stagnant in her music choice, and I don't blame her, top 50 classical pieces work for a reason, easy on the ears. All she had to do is add the stretch and flexibility, and before you can blink, and faster than instant coffee from McDonalds we have what is claimed and hyped to be "artistry". Skating pretty is what she delivers, versatility, willingness to take the risk of not being "pretty" in the service of art, is not something IMHO she can or will do. BTW, IMO Bartok requires artists to be willing to risk "not pretty" Bartok requires artists to put a bit of their soul and humanity into the performance. IMHO, I don't think those are Cohen's strength.

She chose Dark Eyes the Roma folk meldoy as a novice in 98, as a senior in 01, and will be skating to the same piece at world and nationals 05. How repetitive is that!! If you really want some versatility from Cohen, IMHO something from Feeney maybe good. How about Dracula for the drama of it. If that is too much of a stretch for her, Feeney's hunchback of notre dame may be easier for her.

Since figure skating is a sport, if Cohen lands her jumps, spins, and footwork, she will do well. I actually think she is much more of a technical skater, even though some of her techniques need tuning and reworking. Overall, JMO she is not an artistic skater (ducking from the arrows). It takes more much more than technique to be an artist.
 
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Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
IDLERACER said:
I haven't seen the whole thing yet. I taped it while watching the Bocelli special on another channel. From what I've seen so far, (and from what everyone is describing), after all these years, there's absolutely nothing new under the sun. Irina has akward landings, Sasha mops up the ice with her butt and Angela doubles her jumps near the end. Things have literally not changed since the year 2000. :rolleye:

You must have been asleep because a lot has happened in between.

Vash
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
rtureck said:
Sasha Cohen has been hibernating in her comfort zone re: her music choice for years... ZZZZZ



Romance with Tchaikovsky is dangerous. Cohen should consult the ghost of Bob Davidov or the ghost of A. Miliakova, j/k


:rofl: Bartok is really a stretch for her. She does not have the maturity, the intellectual stamina, or the emotional nuance for Bartok. Cohen has been skating for years to the top 50 classical pieces. Tchaikovsky had a gift for melody, second to none or maybe second only to Mozart. PIT could write a jingle, and people love his jingles. Cohen has been stagnant in her music choice, and I don't blame her, top 50 classical pieces work for a reason, easy on the ears. All she had to do is add the stretch and flexibility, and before you can blink, and faster than instant coffee from McDonalds we have what is claimed and hyped to be "artistry". Skating pretty is what she delivers, versatility, willingness to take the risk of not being "pretty" in the service of art, is not something IMHO she can or will do. BTW, IMO Bartok requires artists to be willing to risk "not pretty" Bartok requires artists to put a bit of their soul and humanity into the performance. IMHO, I don't think those are Cohen's strength.

She chose Dark Eyes the Roma folk meldoy as a novice in 98, as a senior in 01, and will be skating to the same piece at world and nationals 05. How repetitive is that!! If you really want some versatility from Cohen, IMHO something from Feeney maybe good. How about Dracula for the drama of it. If that is too much of a stretch for her, Feeney's hunchback of notre dame may be easier for her.

Since figure skating is a sport, if Cohen lands her jumps, spins, and footwork, she will do well. I actually think she is much more of a technical skater, even though some of her techniques need tuning and reworking. Overall, JMO she is not an artistic skater (ducking from the arrows). It takes more much more than technique to be an artist.

Interesting take on Sasha! You are right that she is being rewarded for her flexibility but that is not artistry. IMO part of it is- the different positions are pleasing to the eyes- and that could be considered artistry. There are times when she really puts her heart into the performance- Malaguena from last year is an example. However, I agree that her scope is very limited, as indicated by her choice of music over the years. She is definitely not a versatile skater that can express different moods with her skating. She does not have great technique, but it is camouflaged by her flexibility, and she does not get penalized for the flaws. If she lands the jumps, I think she will beat Irina because judges love her flexibility. While I find her pleasant to watch (when she is not falling all over the ice), I rarely get into her performances.

Vash
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
lavender said:
I didn't see Angela fall either. She has a very boring program but I still would have had her in ahead of Sasha some how.

Jenny should have been ahead of Sasha also. Nice music but she doesn't really have a difficult program. Did she have footwork?

Irina's.. great speed and jumps but I don't like her program. However she will get the points.

I agree with all who said that Jenny and Angela should have placed ahead of Sasha. Angela's program is boring- she has not developed since 'Sleeping Beauty' which was a much more attractive program than this one. Still, coming off an injury last year, and a disastrous performance at COC, I think she was cautious in her skating. She doubled a planned triple flip, and singled a double axel, but it was not in a downward spiral. Her spiral position is very weak. Still, her program had no disruptions. I actually liked Jenny's program. When she skates relatively clean, she seems to be really having fun out there. IMO Sasha's incredible flexibility and lines do not make up for that many falls and bad landings on jumps. Angela's last place is what I call 'terrible judging'. It totally ignores her beautiful camel spin, layback spin, correct technique on jumps, and penalizes her for skating poorly in the past.

About Michelle's boots- the commentators kept saying that her lackluster performance may have been due to the boots. AFAIK she was not skating with brand new boots. It was just something that did not feel right, and that can happen to any skater. Many times you go to the ice, the boots don't feel right and you have to tie them again. Michelle is a seasoned skater. I expect her to handle a problem like that. She actually skated with a broken boot at a worlds and skated great (was it in 2003?). So I tend to think her so so performance was due to the fact that her program is not in top shape yet. I expect her to get really comfortable with it by worlds. However, I am not convinced she can win nationals- there is not enough time. Sasha could beat her with a relatively clean performance, which is more likely to happen with John Nicks by her side.

Finally, I have to say a word in defense of Irina's program. Like everyone else, I too thought it racked up points but it was not an interesting program to watch. I was surprised to discover that the more I watched it, the more I liked it. It is not a beautiful program like Sasha's or a passionate one like Michelle's or Irina's own 'Tosca' from the past, but it comes totally from the heart. She has many difficult moves in it- again, they are not beautiful but they are difficult, and that makes it interesting to me. Most of all though, it is the freedom and conviction she has in that program that makes it enjoyable for me.

Vash
 
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mpal2

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Actually, Michelle was skating with new boots and reportedly only got her triples back that same week of the competition. (ETA) Put that together with new choreography and tougher elements, I would say she did rather well considering.


There are several posts all over FSU and the MKF regarding this issue that shouldn't be too hard to find for those who actually want to look up a few links.



Also, some of her changes were not months old, they were only 2 weeks old. See the link below. She was reportedly working with Morosov mid-November and Marshall's was held December 3rd. It's not like she had time to work on some of these changes from October to December. 2 weeks not 2 months.

http://p216.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=23235.topic
 
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flowjo35

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Actually Vash

It was stated by Michelle that her foot was slipping in her boot and her foot did not feel right so she took it off and retied it. You can see it was bothering her because she keep trying to readjust them. This was also witnessed by people who were at the event. It was also later reported that she was breaking in new boots. As Peggy stated also that if your boot does not feel right that can throw you off because of the stiffness you feel. Also there changes in her program were new and you can understand if she was thinking her way through her skate. I think she will be ready for Nationals and I hope it is a great competion with Michelle going for her 9th title.
 

Vash01

Medalist
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
flowjo35 said:
Actually Vash

It was stated by Michelle that her foot was slipping in her boot and her foot did not feel right so she took it off and retied it. You can see it was bothering her because she keep trying to readjust them. This was also witnessed by people who were at the event. It was also later reported that she was breaking in new boots. As Peggy stated also that if your boot does not feel right that can throw you off because of the stiffness you feel. Also there changes in her program were new and you can understand if she was thinking her way through her skate. I think she will be ready for Nationals and I hope it is a great competion with Michelle going for her 9th title.

If those were new boots, it is understandable. I saw the segment where she was readjusting/retying the boots. I know that the boot has to feel right, as I have to often retie/adjust mine before it feels right. I still feel that this close to the US nationals, Michelle's program needed to be in a better shape (her comfort level with the program). The boots did not seem to bother her in the jumps (the small problem on the double axel could be ignored)- that's where I would have expected to see more problems if her foot was slipping. However, it is the footwork she did not seem comfortable with- not in sync with the music. That's where Bolero's real challenge is. The spins also seemed slow. We won't know until the USN if this program is going to work in the sense of being a world championship caliber program. My feeling is that 'underdog' Sasha could take this one away from Michelle in Portland if she is less than confident with the program.

Vash
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
But live, these flaws are swept away by her speed and power and by her command of the whole ice surface.
That's an interesting comment, because when I've seen her live, I've seen her travel back and forth over the center of the ice to set up jumps, often landing toe jumps in the corner with little run-out, and I thought her command of the whole ice surface was lacking. Her power and speed, though, are not, although the pumping to gain them is just as ungainly live as it is on TV, IMO.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Maybe it's my aging eyesight but I don't see Irina as such a speed skater and I don't necessarily need to see anyone speed all over the ice. I see Irina as a calculating skater who keeps a moderate speed (sensible) throughout her programs. Irina's forte is the Sport - not the Artistry. and Irina is very careful in her movements over the ice.

I have seen some 3rd tier skaters dragging themselves along the ice, but the top tier skaters and most of the 2nd tier skaters have learned to pace their programs for speed. A skater needs high speed to execute proper jumps, hence you will mostly see cross overs and long pauses into the jumps. Some skaters who follow the CoP closely will do a few basic turns into a jump after getting sufficient speed by crossovers, but too many basic turn may cause slow downs of speed.

So, imo, high speed for jumps and the rest of the program, speed in line with the music and interpretation. The best, if the not the only one, is Yuka Sato who is a speed demon in the most quiet way. It's amazing.

Getting back to Irina: she is a very clever skater. I think she's doing the right thing.

Joe
 

flowjo35

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Vash

You could be right about Michelle having to feel confident with her program. I think between Marshall's and Nationals its about 6 weeks? From Michelle's teleaconference she seems to be in a good place. I am sure she will be more comfortable with her programs. Nationals should be a great competition, I can not wait :)
 
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