What's your vote on Sasha's move?

SkateFan4Life · Dec 23, 2004

Tonichelle said:
no one here has said you are not entitled to your opinion... our opinions just aren't meshing with yours. For that we aren't going to apologise. We realize it's YOUR opinion, but that's really all it is... because I find my opinion more valid for ME personally. I don't think my thoughts will change yours. I'm just stating them outloud just as I'm entitled to do.

To just critisize someone because the media has written one side of one story so to make it 'news worthy' is completely unfair. To critisize a skater for a stupid poll on their official site is more than unfair!

That's your opinion, again. And I am entitled to express mine, as loudly as I wish to do. I do not consider myself "unfair" for my comments on Sasha Cohen's poll, and if you took the time to read some of the other posters on this particular thread, you would see that others have a similar, if not exact, view.

Let's tone this discussion down, OK?

SkateFan4Life · Dec 23, 2004

None of are privy to the internal discussions/negotiations that may have resulted in Sasha Cohen's returning to John Nicks. The fact that Sasha is returning to Nicks for only through the Nationals (at least that's the arrangement for now) may mean that Mr. Nicks is trying her out. Remember, folks, that they did not have the most harmonious working relationship. Hopefully, the situation will be different now, and they can work together smoothly. On paper, the combination of John Nicks, coach, and Sasha Cohen, skater, is a powerful one.

I certainly wish them the best.

Tonichelle · Dec 23, 2004

it is my opinion that it IS unfair to see her as 'wrong' because of a poll. Bolding and enlarging your font will not change that feeling :laugh:

As a webmaster/designer of several sites I think it's unfair that something I would put up would give someone cause to find problems within a skater's decision... there's MY opinion...

I realize that others have said similar things on this and other threads. I can and do read. I have never been a fan of Sasha's, but I can't see having 3 coaches in one's small career as a completely bad thing... otherwise a classmate of mine growing up wouldn't be the state champ and a strong competitor nationally in swimming... she's had 5--in the last 3 or 4 years--and she'll turn 20 sometime next year (I don't know her well, just follow her in swimming). While not the same sport, both are individual sports. As others have said, if she feels that this is what's best who are we to tell her she's wrong? Even if it turns out to be a 'bad' decision, you don't know what she's actually getting out of all of this. Only Sasha really knows.

Whatever happened to the rumor of the past two coach switching decisions being Sasha's mom's decision anyway? Maybe now Sasha is taking some control back?

kyla2 · Dec 23, 2004

You know, we are talking about an exceptionally gifted skater here. She deserves our repsect for all that she has accomplished. I am never bored watching her and frequently entranced. The sport would be less exciting and much less beautiful without her. So, a little respect would be nice.

Kuchana · Dec 23, 2004

kyla2 said:
You know, we are talking about an exceptionally gifted skater here. She deserves our repsect for all that she has accomplished. I am never bored watching her and frequently entranced. The sport would be less exciting and much less beautiful without her. So, a little respect would be nice.

I don't think it's a matter of respect...like others, I, too think Sasha is a beautiful skater even if I'm not a fan of hers. However, to say she warrents more respect when she hasn't even won the big ones and the glaring fact that she has a horrific pattern of inconistency is rather disturbing to say the least, especially with a person of her talent and right good talent that is. I think the criticisms are valid even though some are rather harsh but the truth hurts and that's the way of it no matter how some people may rationlize for it. It's just sad to see such talent wasted and I'm sure there'll be some here that won't agree with me but that's how I feel and I don't think I'm being disrespectful about it. Until she gets her act up together and she acutally is able to skate on a more consistent level as well as win the big ones, then I'll give her the credit she deserves. Sure she won the world silver medal (her first ever) but we know shes much more capable than that. And if it's unfair to say that I have high expecations or others then so be it because we all very well know she's fully capable but she doesn't fulfill her potential. When I look at Sasha, I think to myself of what coulda, might've, should've been. Who knows she may surprise us but call me pessimistic when I say don't count on it given her record. Right now, even if she is one of the top skaters in the world, her record cannot even compare with the other top ladies.

Kuchana · Dec 23, 2004

Linny said:
So, could it be that Sasha isn't really in the driver's seat on this? That John Nicks agreed to certain conditions and a trial period from now until Nationals in which to see if the conditions could be met?

Lin

Such as? Winning Nationals? Getting her act together? What?

R.D. · Dec 23, 2004

SkateFan4Life said:
None of are privy to the internal discussions/negotiations that may have resulted in Sasha Cohen's returning to John Nicks. The fact that Sasha is returning to Nicks for only through the Nationals (at least that's the arrangement for now) may mean that Mr. Nicks is trying her out. Remember, folks, that they did not have the most harmonious working relationship. Hopefully, the situation will be different now, and they can work together smoothly. On paper, the combination of John Nicks, coach, and Sasha Cohen, skater, is a powerful one.

I certainly wish them the best.

Actually, sounds more and more like she plans to "stay" with him through the Olympics...

You know, we are talking about an exceptionally gifted skater here. She deserves our repsect for all that she has accomplished. I am never bored watching her and frequently entranced. The sport would be less exciting and much less beautiful without her. So, a little respect would be nice.

While I don't share your enthusiasm for her skating, I agree to some extent that her accomplishments are somewhat overshadowed by greater expectations of her. I can guarantee you if she had half the talent she wouldn't be getting all this "attention" :laugh:

I strongly disagree with the posters here who expect her to be first all the time because of talent. Talent does NOT make you good! It's the work, the technique, the toughness. Talent is nothing without all those. My assumption would be she has issues with toughening it out during the big ones (I've heard she's perfect in practices) and if that's the problem, that's what needs to be addressed. I don't think it's fair to say she's not fulfilling her potential because all potential is, IMO, is expectations of others on what "could be". Personally, I really don't expect much from her because of her lack of mental toughness. Talent has nothing to do with it.

this is JUST MY OPINION.

GlisteningTearDrop · Dec 23, 2004

I dont know whether or not it's a good thing for her, or whether she is getting the attitude of whether its coaches fault not hers, but I do like this change. I used to be a Sasha fan back when she was with Nicks. She had fire and spark. She wasn't consistent, but she was a less mature girl who just wanted so badly to win. I dont blame her. It was all a mental thing. She's growing up little by little, at least I sure hope so... I lost respect for her with TT, she performed better, but she didnt seem like the same girl. Then Robin came and and blah... well lets just say I've always disliked her. So yeah this is a fairly good change for ME. Now this is my hopes for this situation... hopefully Sasha can take the knowledge of what she's learned from TT and I suppose Robin, but bring it in with her old self, the self that had passion, desire, and drive. Maybe then I'll start to like her again, I guess we'll see.

ChiSk8Fan · Dec 23, 2004

Just a hypothetical situation

Let's assume that the return to Nicks leads Sasha to perform two perfect skates at Nationals, and she places second. Then, she does the same thing at Worlds and places 3rd. What will she do? Would she be happy she competed perfectly as planned, regardless of result? Will she change coaches again?

This change is probably a decent move for her, but does she want to skate supremely well, and be a great skater (she is not 'great' because she does make errors), or does she simply want titles?

I guess we'll see, and that's the fun of it!

GlisteningTearDrop · Dec 23, 2004

ChiSk8Fan said:
Let's assume that the return to Nicks leads Sasha to perform two perfect skates at Nationals, and she places second. Then, she does the same thing at Worlds and places 3rd. What will she do? Would she be happy she competed perfectly as planned, regardless of result? Will she change coaches again?

I think thats the point many have been facing. At least I know I have been. Honestly I dont ever think there is a perfect program.. well done but yeah. So she does this so called perfect program and gets second at Nats.. well then she'll have to improve something. So this is where we'll see if Sasha is really in the "right state of mind" so to say. If she goes and well switches again well then I think itd be almost safe to say shes pulling the whole "its not me its them". But yeah.. I hope your hypothetical situation does happen truly, it'd answer a lot of questions.

Piel · Dec 23, 2004

Why are these same discussions not being held regarding Angela, Jenny, Fumie, Yoshie, Victoria Volchkova, Cupcake, and all of the other ladies who show great potential but have failed to win a National or World title? Sasha is not my favorite but she doesn't deserve to be the figure skating board whipping post....of course Michelle and Weiss are probably enjoying the break :biggrin:

.

R.D. · Dec 23, 2004

Piel said:
Why are these same discussions not being held regarding Angela, Jenny, Fumie, Yoshie, Victoria Volchkova, Cupcake, and all of the other ladies who show great potential but have failed to win a National or World title? Sasha is not my favorite but she doesn't deserve to be the figure skating board whipping post....

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better.

Piel · Dec 23, 2004

Red Dog said:
I strongly disagree with the posters here who expect her to be first all the time because of talent. Talent does NOT make you good! It's the work, the technique, the toughness. Talent is nothing without all those.

this is JUST MY OPINION.

Exactly Red Dog! :rock:

The two most successful ladies at this time Michelle and Irina, are not the most talented but have great work ethics and are mentally tough.

Piel · Dec 23, 2004

I think we both posted at the same time, LOL.

Lucy25 · Dec 23, 2004

Tonichelle said:
Whatever happened to the rumor of the past two coach switching decisions being Sasha's mom's decision anyway? Maybe now Sasha is taking some control back?

Actually, in the latest article up on the USFSA site, Nicks says that he received a call from Mrs. Cohen who asked to set up a meeting betwen he, she, and Sasha. So the mom just might have had more input in this than you might think.

mpal2 · Dec 23, 2004

Why are these same discussions not being held regarding Angela, Jenny, Fumie, Yoshie, Victoria Volchkova, Cupcake, and all of the other ladies who show great potential but have failed to win a National or World title? Sasha is not my favorite but she doesn't deserve to be the figure skating board whipping post....of course Michelle and Weiss are probably enjoying the break .

They just don't come across as flashy a personality and don't make it onto people's radar to begin with. Sokolova is the exception because she seems to be a firecracker :laugh:

. Her problem is that she really did drop off of the map for a while. She had a strong comeback year but then returned the next season injured and fell back off of the map. She didn't stick long enough.

gezando · Dec 24, 2004

kyla2 said:
You know, we are talking about an exceptionally gifted skater here. She deserves our repsect for all that she has accomplished. I am never bored watching her and frequently entranced. The sport would be less exciting and much less beautiful without her. So, a little respect would be nice.

You are never bored, and others are. I think Bowman and Bobek are more talented. "Sports is less exciting and much less beautiful without her." That is your perspective as a huge Sasha fan others may not share. JMHO no skater is greater than the sports itself. When we are listing great skaters Sasha Cohen's current accomplishment does not make the cut. IMO

RealtorGal · Dec 24, 2004

Joesitz said:
This is Sasha's decision, and I support her. I support any skater's decisions and if they don't work out, I'll support the next decisions.

Joe

I agree, it's her decision and her life to do with as she sees fit. We're just FS FANS, nothing more!

Linny · Dec 24, 2004

Conditions

When I suggested that perhaps there were "conditions" set out in advance in the new relationship between Cohen and Nicks, I certainly did not mean to imply any kind of guarantee that the coach would get her medals...

But I'm remembering what was said in the media back when they skated together.... they apparently argued over music, over whether or not she should try the quad, they argued over her number of hours on the ice, they argued over her rehabilitation after her back injury...

Maybe there were some words between them that simply said "If you are paying me for my advice, perhaps you ought to take some of it?"

Interestingly enough, TT and Cohen disagreed about her participation in a cheesefest. Soon after, they parted ways. My take on this is that a skater simply does not argue with TT. If they do, they hit the pike.

Another odd coincidence is that words were said to the affect that Robin was disappointed in Sasha's choice of training rinks and hours... or something like that. Any, shortly after this event, they, too parted ways.

Is it possible that the skater-coach relationship with these elite coaches is more than an employer-employee relationship? That this isn't really Sasha "firing" an employee like Donald Trump would fire an apprentice?

Linny

euterpe · Dec 24, 2004

I was surprised when Sasha went to Robin Wagner last year, but I believe TT had told her she would have to get a new coach (TT fired Sasha) and Wagner was the only 'elite' coach both in the NY area and available.

Sasha tends to work hard each time she starts with a new coach. She split with Nicks after the 2001-2002 season because she was disappointed at not winning the OGM "like Tara", and TT had the reputation of coaching OGM winners (Yagudin, in 2002). Sasha worked hard under TT and romped through the GP series, winning 2 golds and a silver and the GPF championship. She had some reverses, finishing 3rd behind Kwan and Hughes at Nationals, and just off the podium at Worlds. The 2003-2004 season started with a bang, with a win at Campbell's (beating Kwan for the first time), then 3 gold medals in the GP under the new CoP system. But the bloom had started to fade from the rose when there was no 2003 World medal, and Sasha began to rebel against TT's strict regimen, and Sasha's insistence on skating in the Winter cheesefest was the last straw.

Sasha worked hard under Robin and it would seem there were immediate successes: winning the Nationals SP and her first World medal. But apparently, to Sasha, winning is winning only when it's the TITLE. I had a feeling that when Sasha did not win the World Championship, Robin's days as her coach were numbered. And so it came to pass.

Sasha will work hard under Nicks now, but she is so far behind that it's going to be tough to catch up. And with her fragile back, pushing too hard is not the answer. The only way things can work out for her is if she takes a longer view and not insist on winning it all now, but gear up for Torino. The question is can she change that winning-is-everything mindset.

What's your vote on Sasha's move?

SkateFan4Life

Guest

SkateFan4Life

Guest

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

kyla2

Kuchana

Kuchana

R.D.

GlisteningTearDrop

ChiSk8Fan

GlisteningTearDrop

Piel

On Edge

R.D.

Piel

On Edge

Piel

On Edge

Lucy25

mpal2

gezando

RealtorGal

Linny

euterpe

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