What's your vote on Sasha's move?

euterpe said:

Sasha worked hard under Robin and it would seem there were immediate successes: winning the Nationals SP and her first World medal. But apparently, to Sasha, winning is winning only when it's the TITLE. I had a feeling that when Sasha did not win the World Championship, Robin's days as her coach were numbered. And so it came to pass.

Sasha will work hard under Nicks now, but she is so far behind that it's going to be tough to catch up. And with her fragile back, pushing too hard is not the answer. The only way things can work out for her is if she takes a longer view and not insist on winning it all now, but gear up for Torino. The question is can she change that winning-is-everything mindset.

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I agree with your views. Sasha seems to view that anything less than first place is a "failure". She has a perfectionist attitude, and she wants to be the best. She, the media, the USFSA, and her fans, have such high expectations for her, due to her enormous talent, that anything less than first place is regarded as a disappointment. There's nothing disgraceful in winning silver and bronze medals at US Nationals and silver at Worlds - unless you happen to be Sasha Cohen.

I think Sasha needs to focus her sights on Torino and pace herself so that she will peak in January/February 2006. For this upcoming season, she just needs to skate well and qualify for the World Team. Her back injury may not be completely healed, and with the upheaval of moving and switching coaches at the last minute (before Nationals), it would be a victory for Sasha to just qualify for the World Team.

And, without being critical, I think Sasha needs to listen to John Nicks and follow his direction. She has been known to rebel against her coach's instructions, and she needs to put that aside for the time being. She needs to just focus and get back to training.

IMHO, of course.

Piel said:

Why are these same discussions not being held regarding Angela, Jenny, Fumie, Yoshie, Victoria Volchkova, Cupcake, and all of the other ladies who show great potential but have failed to win a National or World title? Sasha is not my favorite but she doesn't deserve to be the figure skating board whipping post....of course Michelle and Weiss are probably enjoying the break .

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Because they're not as electrifying.... to me anyways. Also, I think that with the likes of Sasha, Michelle, and Irina, they're in a class by themselves, which the ladies above have not been able to reach. I guess for me, I hold these 3 ladies to a higher standard than the others despite how Sasha has not fully reached it yet but she's well on her way. Name me one other lady than the ones mentioned who had great potential but failed to win a National or World title with the exception of Sasha.

euterpe said:

Sasha will work hard under Nicks now, but she is so far behind that it's going to be tough to catch up. And with her fragile back, pushing too hard is not the answer. The only way things can work out for her is if she takes a longer view and not insist on winning it all now, but gear up for Torino. The question is can she change that winning-is-everything mindset.

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Good point raised. And the Olympics is only a little over a year away. I certainly hope she's able to go past that mindset or maybe not so much focused on that as much as just skating her best.

I have been a fan of Sasha´s skating since I saw her winning a short programme in US Nationals years ago. And I will always enjoy her skating, whether she wins or not. For her sake I of course wish that she would win US Nationals and Worlds, etc. one day.

About changing her coach, I think that she is doing what she feels that is best for her this moment. I cannot know what would be best for her, LOL....

Marjaana

I suspect TT actively recruited Sasha away from Nicks. She came along at a time when Sasha was discouraged and somewhat vulnerable. I think TT then misread Sasha's character and misdiagnosed the problem with her skating. IMHO the real problem with Sasha is stamina, but that is a fairly easy problem to fix *if* you build it up gradually. Instead TT seemed to think the problem was poor work ethic, rushed the process, drove Sasha hard and basically gave her programs that were too hard for her. This technique certainly does work with some athletes, but apparently not for Sasha who looked miserable and worn down to skin and bones by GPF. IOW, Sasha burnt out. At that point her exhuastion probably did manifest itself in both what TT as an old school coach would interpret as defiance and truly bratty behavior as well. My guess is TT's decision to go to Russian Natls instead of US nationals was a subtle type of punishment. Subtle or not, Sasha and her mother got the message loud and clear.

If my speculations are somewhat accurate, I am sure that Robin Wagner seemed like a dream, I completely believe Sasha's insistance that she enjoyed working with Robin. But once again she suffered disappointment at worlds; reasonable or not, silver was NOT was Sasha wanted or expected after the quals and SP. It makes sense that her discouragement this time showed itself with the slacking off she did this summer and fall and RW could not do a thing about it.

As for TT, it seems to me she really wants to have a ladies OG medalist. Sasha didn't pan out, so she took on Shizuka rather suddenly And now it seems Shizuka is getting injured, thin, and perhaps burnt out as well . Frankly, it makes me think that TT just is not that good at coaching women. Some women will tolerate behavior from men that they will not tolerate from women, reasonable or not.

Anyway, all this babbling aside, I am not really a Sasha fan, but I am surprised at how much heat she is taking when I think TT bears a great deal of the responsibilty as well ( RW, too) And I really hope Sasha will just relax and be happy this year, build up her stamina and be a contender at Natls and beyond.

BA

SkateFan4Life said:

The girl is another Nicole Bobek - playing musical coaches and not settling down to train seriously. IMHO, Cohen will never win the US, World, or Olympic titles. She would not buckle down and train seriously under John Nicks, so why would anyone expect her to do so now?

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I believe that Sasha keeps changing coaches because she's trying to find that "magic coach" who could help her to skate cleanly in competition. She obviously can jump and skate artistically; there's just this mental block that she can't overcome during competitons. Poor girl. It's really too bad. She wants to win so badly and she tries so hard.

shanilia said:

I believe that Sasha keeps changing coaches because she's trying to find that "magic coach" who could help her to skate cleanly in competition. She obviously can jump and skate artistically; there's just this mental block that she can't overcome during competitons. Poor girl. It's really too bad. She wants to win so badly and she tries so hard.

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I don't think Sasha is a poor girl at all. I'd say shes a smart girl & she is making the best move she could make. Shes is the most beautiful skater today but if she is not happy in her private life, such as being homesick, it will take the joy out of skating. She might have moved the first time to improve herself but the Robin move was only a transition IMHO. Going back home, where her real life is and she is more than a figure skater to people around her shows that skating is not everything to her. There is no place like home! My prediction is we'll see a much more confident and happy Sasha at Nationals.
Peggy

Maybe Sasha's problem was and maybe still is patience.

Sasha was such a short time with RW that the latter surely cannot be blamed for Sasha not winning the gold in Worlds. On the other hand Shizuka was only a short time with Tarasova, but maybe she was more relaxed at Worlds as she had been planning to skating?

It sure looked to me too, that Sasha too much wanted to win the gold, and was too eager to win it. It showed in her first jumps as she did not manage to do the combination. She needs to find the right balance for her competitive spirit.

Marjaana

....though I am not a Kwaniac, I fear that Sasha's whole problem is that she aspires to win in an era when MK refuses to lose her edge in her long competitive career. Nicole, Tara, Sarah, Naomi, Angela...some have beaten her, none very often and that's just the Americans. Even in her World Silver performance, she stumbled and needed penalties and points to be victorious over her. It must be hard to contain your own nerves, attempt to control one's own destiny, concentrate, and still know that the equivalent of a skating buzzsaw is competing with you. I really do think it is a mental problem with Sasha. I think she'd be foolish to ever admit it in print. However, I often remember Sarah commenting on not worrying about worlds "just now" because winning at nationals was hard enough, I think we all knew one major componant of which she was speaking since Kwan's won Nats more times consectively than Owens now.

I truly believe that with the exception of a few skaters, Kwan fear is probably a real factor for a lot of elite skaters. Since she's not known for falling down a lot and can still skate her a** off after being interupted by a half naked man in a tutu, it would seem to be on a lot of lady's minds when sizing up the performance they must produce to beat that kind of effort and consistancy.

Maybe the move back will be good for her. The climate seems to agree with MK, Amber, Jenny, Be Be, et al... I only wonder out loud if Wagner is free could she, would she, possibly be another Madame T for Angela. I still believe that Angela has the potential for a lifetime Worlds or Olympic skate, but only if she believes she still can. Hope the Cohen clan reaclimate. Quite frankly, I've had to come to the same conclusion about Sasha that I've come to about Angela...you love their skating for what it is and don't worry about the medals.

and hey, at least it gives us 6 page threads

sk8m8 said:

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I still believe that Angela has the potential for a lifetime Worlds or Olympic skate, but only if she believes she still can. Hope the Cohen clan reaclimate. Quite frankly, I've had to come to the same conclusion about Sasha that I've come to about Angela...you love their skating for what it is and don't worry about the medals.

and hey, at least it gives us 6 page threads

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May be out of the topic. As for Angela, mental toughness aside the majore problem is stamnia. While the former is hard to control even you know you have the problem, but the late you can control, just push through the run through in your practice, unfortaunately Angela dosen't do it. Angela is different than Sasha, she is lacking of determination or the will.

Sasha shall be fine by Nationals. John Nick is good to her, IMO, where is the better place to lick your wounds other than your home under the care of the ones who brought you up, when you are physically and emotionally hurt. IMO, TT help her direct competetor winning worlds over her immediately after leaving her to Robyn hurt her emotionally more than most expected.

GlisteningTearDrop said:

I think thats the point many have been facing. At least I know I have been. Honestly I dont ever think there is a perfect program.. well done but yeah. So she does this so called perfect program and gets second at Nats.. well then she'll have to improve something. So this is where we'll see if Sasha is really in the "right state of mind" so to say. If she goes and well switches again well then I think itd be almost safe to say shes pulling the whole "its not me its them". But yeah.. I hope your hypothetical situation does happen truly, it'd answer a lot of questions.

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I don't even think that thought has entered her mind since she started getting just as good pres scores as Michelle. I truly feel that people around her are saying that all she has to do is skate clean and she would win. I know even non fans feel that the judges would do it. I think some forget how Michelle can skate and bring something out that no one else has and win. I hope that I get to see another magical skate from Michelle and a clean skate from Sasha to see what the judges would actually do.

mzheng said:

Sasha shall be fine by Nationals. John Nick is good to her, IMO, where is the better place to lick your wounds other than your home under the care of the ones who brought you up, when you are physically and emotionally hurt. IMO, TT help her direct competetor winning worlds over her immediately after leaving her to Robyn hurt her emotionally more than most expected.

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Nicely put, Mzheng. A rational explanation! I go along with her being with Nicks, too. She basically had to get out of the East. Too much baggage there. I think we will see a new Sasha emerge at the Nats.

Joe

BrokenAnkle said:

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Anyway, all this babbling aside, I am not really a Sasha fan, but I am surprised at how much heat she is taking when I think TT bears a great deal of the responsibilty as well ( RW, too) And I really hope Sasha will just relax and be happy this year, build up her stamina and be a contender at Natls and beyond.

BA

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I really disagree with your opinion here. Sasha has to skate clean in order to win. The coaches do what they can, and the rest is up to the skater. It's not TT's fault, or Robins fault, that Sasha can't skate a clean LP. That problem lies within Sasha herself. Was it Mr. Nicks fault that Sasha couldn't skate a clean LP with him? You can only lead a horse to water, but can't force it to drink.
Sasha obviously thinks the only thing that matters in life is winning. A coach can not fix her problems, only she can. I think blaming her coaches is quite ridiculous.
Robin is used to coaching hard workers. Sarah went out there, trained hard and did what was needed. Robin has been quoted as saying Sasha's training habits are inconsistent. This statement speaks VOLUMES about Sasha. She wants to win, but isn't willing to work hard in order to get the final result.

When everyone is always trumping up your natural talent (which Sasha has oodles of), and telling you that you will win if you skate clean , that'll naturally be on your mind as your competing, putting extra (and negative) pressure on yourself. The fact that she knows that she's one of the best skaters in the world and can (or "should") win these championships is what's getting her. If she didn't think about all this she would probably be fine, but knowing that she can win and wanting it so badly puts extra pressure on her, because she's always thinking that it could be hers. When you're thinking about winning and how good you are of course you're not going to perform your best. If you go into a jump thinking, "Okay, I have to land this because I might not win if I don't," that almost always spells disaster. And if she's comparing herself to Michelle like Sk8m8 suggested, that's another problem. This is hypothetical, but if she goes into a competition thinking that her skating is better than Michelle's (or Shizuka or Irina, as the situation may be) and that she can beat her, she'll be thinking about that as she skates, and this would effect her in the exact same way as just knowing that she can win. ITA with everyone who said that her problem is mental and that she shouldn't focus so much on winning. It's so hard though, especially if you want something so bad.

Piel said:

Did Robin suddenly lose the ability to inspire or did Sasha lose the will to be inspired is the question we REALLY want the answer to ?
If the opportunity to be one of the top skaters in the world doesn't inspire a skater maybe they need a break from the sport.

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PML!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfectly said! I wholeheartedly agree, Sasha needs to look within herself for inspiration, not at her coaches. Because in the end, if she doesn't have it in her to do it, then no one else can put it there.

Fossi said:

It's not TT's fault, or Robins fault, that Sasha can't skate a clean LP. That problem lies within Sasha herself.
Sasha obviously thinks the only thing that matters in life is winning. A coach can not fix her problems, only she can.

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Yes, I completel agree.

Fossi said:

Robin has been quoted as saying Sasha's training habits are inconsistent. This statement speaks VOLUMES about Sasha. She wants to win, but isn't willing to work hard in order to get the final result.

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Interesting. I didn't know Robin said that. Sasha reminds me more and more of Nicole Bobek. If I'm not mistaken, Nicole wanted to win too but didn't want to train hard to earn it.

sk8m8 said:

....though I am not a Kwaniac, I fear that Sasha's whole problem is that she aspires to win in an era when MK refuses to lose her edge in her long competitive career. Nicole, Tara, Sarah, Naomi, Angela...some have beaten her, none very often and that's just the Americans. Even in her World Silver performance, she stumbled and needed penalties and points to be victorious over her. It must be hard to contain your own nerves, attempt to control one's own destiny, concentrate, and still know that the equivalent of a skating buzzsaw is competing with you. I really do think it is a mental problem with Sasha. I think she'd be foolish to ever admit it in print.

I truly believe that with the exception of a few skaters, Kwan fear is probably a real factor for a lot of elite skaters. Since she's not known for falling down a lot and can still skate her a** off after being interupted by a half naked man in a tutu, it would seem to be on a lot of lady's minds when sizing up the performance they must produce to beat that kind of effort and consistancy

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Interesting points raised. If anything, I would think this Kwan fear would be something that Sasha could utilize on. The fact that Kwan is so consistent and tough to beat should provide a challenge to her and the other skaters. She's that good and the other skaters should rise to the challenge that she presents. I guess for so long we've gotten used to the Kwan standard until the other skaters eventually realized she wasn't as invincible as they believed but yep it would definitely be tough to beat her unless they skate their best and have that extra spark. Evidently the likes of Irina and Shizuka were up to that challenge I hope Sasha will be able to do the same at Nationals. If so, that would definitely be a worthy competition to watch.

About the mental aspect, I concur. Even if you have such loads of talent, it doesn't matter one bit if you can't conquer the mental aspect.

Even if you have such loads of talent, it doesn't matter one bit if you can't conquer the mental aspect.

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EXACTLY. It never ceases to amaze me how some, knowing that she isn't mentally tough, STILL expect her to win everything because she's talented... :sheesh: JMO, of course. I know a lot of you think differently.

I want to see the day that Cohen skates clean, and the championship goes to someone else, just to prove them wrong... :yes:

I think that training with Robin could have been more fun for Sasha on a social level because she is younger and perhaps a bit more fun, but for her skating John Nicks is going to be better for her.