Why did Miki Ando... | Golden Skate

Why did Miki Ando...

RealtorGal

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
... do a second 3 lutz at the end of her LP in the Grand Prix Final when she knew she would receive no credit for it under the Code of Points? Also, if she had fallen on it, would there have been a deduction?

Just curious...
 

doubleaxelcm

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Maybe she was planning on doing a combo on it but she didn't have enough speed or something in the end. Especially if she was planning on doing a loop combo. Probably a momentary lapse of judgement.
 

insecureedge

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
RealtorGal said:
Why did Miki Ando do a second 3 lutz at the end of her LP in the Grand Prix Final when she knew she would receive no credit for it under the Code of Points?
Simply because she did not know. She has done a second triple lutz all season with no ill effects and in fact with good benefit. What conspired against Ando at the GPF were the rules limiting the number of combinations and the Zayak rule forbidding a triple to be repeated unless in combination. Earlier in the season, Miki only did 2 combinations. I suppose that she wanted the extra points that the maximum 3 combinations would give. At the end of her program, Miki had done the maximum number of combinations with a 3F-3Lo, 3T-2T, and 3S-2T. Because she had already done a triple lutz to start off, the second lutz had to be in combination. With the maximum number of 3 combinations already completed, the computer could not make the pass into 3Lz+COMBO, and thus the element was dropped as illegal. If Miki had omitted the double off either combination, the lutz would have counted as 3Lz+COMBO. Alternatively, she could have done a double axel with a base value of 3.3(1.1)=3.6.
RealtorGal said:
Also, if she had fallen on it, would there have been a deduction?
No, because the element does not count and, as the following shows, actually gives Miki points. The base value for a triple lutz is 6.0, which increases to 6.6 after applying the 10% bonus for having a jump later in the program. A fall requires a GOE of -3 and a deduction of -1. Thus the maximum value she would have received is 6.6-3-1=2.6, while less than the 3.6 points an average double axel would give, would still enough to beat Rochette in the LP but not enough to raise her to third overall. Of course, if the lutz were also underrotated to a double in addition to resulting in a fall, the calculation would be 1.1(1.9)-1-1=0.1. A case in which the elimination of the element is a moot point.

insecureedge
 
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mzheng

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
I would've thought even the element dosen't count, the fall still warrentee -1 deduction in overall score. It was like you fall at a cross over, would there be a -1 deduction?

The 3Lutz+combo even clearly the skater has no intention to attempt the 2nd jump? Was either Lutz in her program through GP in combo? Otherwise just looks the skater can intetionally voilate the Zayak rule.
 

insecureedge

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
mzheng said:
[E]ven the element doesn't count, the fall still warrant -1 deduction in overall score?

I stand corrected. Looking at the protocols does show that deductions for falls is applied after the TES and TCS are calculated. So yes, a fall on an element discounted as illegal could nonetheless result in a -1.0 deduction. Strange, huh?

mzheng said:
The 3Lutz+combo even clearly the skater has no intention to attempt the 2nd jump? Was either Lutz in her program through GP in combo? Otherwise just looks the skater can intetionally voilate the Zayak rule.

In Ando's program at the beginning of the year, the first lutz was in combination and followed by a solo triple salchow as a placeholder for a quad attempt. Apparently she has abandoned the idea of a quad for the time being, so it makes sense to start the combo with the salchow instead. BTW, other skaters affected by similar circumstances include Michael Weiss, Tim Goebel (did a 2nd 3-jump combo), and Emmanuel Sandhu.

The issue of how CoP deals with the Zayak rule is interesting. I believe it first came up last year (i.e., 2003) at Skate Canada, in which Sasha Cohen got credited with 3Lz+COMBO despite no clear attempt at tacking on a double to even her surprise. Many skaters have been credited likewise. Of course, this will hurt you in that you cannot truly do the maximum 3 combinations with a resulting loss of points.

insecureedge
 
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