Sasha Cohen's Programs | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Sasha Cohen's Programs

M

Mathman3

Guest
Re: Sasha's Programs

A Golden Skate first: "I almost agreed with Mathman for a whole minute!" ;) My new goal is to make my next post so logical and erudite that someone will almost agree for two.

(Nope, I guess not.)

Mathman :p
 
R

realistic51

Guest
Mathman

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


:cool: so cool am I!!!!
 
R

rgirl181

Guest
Re: Explain rgirl181

That's exactly what the hell I'm trying to figure out:lol: I know what HTML is--Hyper Text Markup Language--but I have no idea why that went up instead of my post. Oh, well. I'll try again.
Rgirl
 
R

rgirl181

Guest
Re: Sasha's Programs

Realistic,

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I know I haven't been posting here for long, but why does it seem that posters "gang" up on another poster? Seems kind of one-sided. It's like a game, pointing out the flaws of one specific poster while hiding the flaws of the "gang." That's just as bad as "bashing" or "dissing" our skaters.[/quote]
I admit I jumped on what probably seems on the surface like a "ganging up." I don't like dealing with things this way, in fact I tried to avoid it and I've openly kvetched about "dogpiles" in the past. But sometimes things don't work out according to the GS and one's personal guidelines, no matter how hard one tries. I know that both Cynic and I tried a number of other ways of working things out to no avail. And I don't know that I would consider two people (myself and Cynic) as a "gang." Windspirit, IMO, only posted that he too thought Eltamina had gone overboard with the Sasha digs. With 21 negative posts by Eltamina about Sasha between 3/13 adn 3/19/03, I think that assertion is warranted.

As for us not pointing out our flaws, I think Cynic's and my flaws are on ample view in these and other posts around the forum for anyone who wants to point them out--which some have in the past. Whatever flaws in me that made it impossible for me to get through to Eltamina, I will certainly take responsibility for them. I can't speak for Cynic, but I'm sure she will too as I have seen her admit and correct her mistakes in the past openly and without sarcasm.

I am, however, quite ambivalent about posting this since I don't like that things had to happen this way and I don't want to perpetuate the situation with more posts. OTOH, I did want to respond to your statement/question, "I know I haven't been posting here long, but why does it seem that posters 'gang' up on another poster?" I think perhaps it's because you haven't been posting here long. In the past few months, GS's membership has increased from 500 to over 1100, plus there was another increase in the summer after FSW folded. With that many new people, there's bound to be friction. Also, external factors such as strongly divided opinions about the war and certain skaters have, I think, also contributed to an uncharacterisically testy atmosphere here.

Also, I wanted to post that it goes without saying that people who don't agree with what Cynic and I posted are of course entitled to voice their opinions. In fact I'm glad you did because I think it's best when a variety of opinions are expressed. As for your feeling that there are frequent group bashings of individual posters on GS, with that I mus disagree. Having been around for years, I don't think I've ever seen a true group bashing. I've seen situations where someone says something negative about a poster or a skater and then others post in agreement to the point where the total effect, IMO, is a bash, but that's a situation where no one individual actually bashes anyone. Those are tricky. Also, I don't think Eltamina was bashed in this situation. I think she was bluntly told that certain posting behavior was inappropriate and to please tone it down. We also called Eltamina on her denials and I know I could have worded things better than I did. However, I did intend to state in no uncertain terms that I was sick and tired of the inferences, whether they were outright character attacks on Sasha or not. Sometimes a cudgel is necessary. Finally, I think your assertion that Cynic told Eltamina "to go to MKF and slam another skater" is incorrect.

However, I do appreciate you stating your opinions on this situation. Although I don't think the "I almost agreed with Mathman for a minute" was necessary, I see now that you meant it to be funny. Perhaps you can see from this example how easy it is for one person's idea of humor to come across to others as dissing. But then I think we all say things when our "goat" is up (mine looks more like a turtle's head;) ) that we would probably not say when our goat is down:)

As for your comments about Sasha (since this thread is entitled "Sasha Cohen's Programs":D ), I agree that her performance at GPF was more methodical and less interesting than her best performances in the GP series, such as Lalique; however, the jumps were always front-loaded.

At Campbell's, Sasha's jumps were: 2Ax, 3Lz (supposed to be 3Lz/2t but she didn't do the 2t), 3f, 3t/.5/3sal, 3lp, Ina Bauer into 3Lz (fall), with her last jump attempt at about 2:40. Six planned, five completed triples and one 2Axel.

At GPF, Sasha's jumps were: 3Lz/2t (supposed to be 3t), 3Lz, 3f, 3lp(pop), 3t, 3sal, IB into 2Ax, 3sal/2t, with the last combo coming at about 3:13. Don't know if she would have put in the 3sal/2t if she had made the 3Lz/3t and/or the 3lp, but in any case she completed six triples, two in combination, and one 2Axel. I too would like for her to have a triple at least right before the final spin combo and although I liked the 3t/.5/3sal sequence, it doesn't get as much technical merit as the 3Lz/3t combo--IF she completes it. So they're taking a calculated risk. But given Sasha's problems with jump technique, stamina, and focus, I think it was wise of Tarasova to construct the program this way. I think it has the maximum technical difficulty within Sasha's abilities. It might not be enough for gold at Worlds and as others have said, the "Rach" LP doesn't seem to work on Sasha nearly as well as the "Malaguena" SP, but them's the breaks. I do think her jump technique and stamina have improved (watching Campbell's and GPF back to back, I was surprised at how much stronger her jumps are, even though she did pop the loop) and hopefully next season Cohen and Tarasova will be able to come up with an LP that works as well on Sasha as "Malaguena" (but with more original music;) ).
Rgirl
 
K

Kasey

Guest
Re: Sasha Cohen's Programs

It seems that it's already been mentioned that difficulty in planning and difficulty in execution are totally separate things....it seems that many times, when Sasha is challenged with the premier competition (Kwan, Slutskaya, Hughes), she somewhat chokes. Apparantly she didn't at the GPF (I didn't see it), so maybe she's getting over that.

I don't know about her speed, having never seen her in person...but I do think that her positions are much better than Michelle's, although similar to Sarah's....that can add to difficulty.

There is something about Kwan, for me, that draws me more into her programs than Cohen....something I think of as a "great skater" is someone who makes you want to watch without even jumping...Kwan, Scott Hamilton, Kurt Browning, Paul Wylie, Yagudin....I don't think Cohen is there, not for me anyway.

Just my take on it...
 
R

realistic51

Guest
rgrl181

"You, my dear, need to learn how to do this. Otherwise please go to some of the designated MK forums and slam to your heart's content." (I don't know how to quote so I just copy and paste)

This statement made in Cynic's post was after the paragraph about eltamina "bashing" Sasha or actually, getting her little digs in about Sasha. Reading the second sentence it was MY impression that it would be better if eltamina would go to a designated MK forum and slam Sasha (since this is who the thread is about anyway) as much as she liked.

I understand perfectly what you are saying in your post. And although I stated that I haven't been posting here for long, I have posted at other boards, including FSW (where bashing was THE thing to do..ugh), and have seen this exact same verbage from others. I don't set myself for people to come down so hard on me so I guess I don't understand where all this is coming from anyway. I'll just go back into my closet and come out when it's not raining.:lol:

As far as Sasha goes, I really do hope TT and Sasha can balance out her programs more next year. Of course, if Sasha wins Worlds, then I guess front-loading your programs aren't as bad as they seem to me.:rollin:

Thank you for responding.
 
J

Joesitz

Guest
sasha's programs

It appears we are subtly continuing the personal battles of two posters. There are strong indications that a gang is forming to belittle one of our regular posters.

What is it about bashing other posters that gets one off?

This is supposed to be a more sophisticated board than the others but what do I read? Cat fights! If you post on other boards why is it necessary to bring childish diatribe here?

Michelle this - Sasha that. Boooring and really childish. Absolutely of no value.

Anymore of these subtle put downs, I will have to delete this entire thread.

Joesitz
 
R

rgirl181

Guest
Re: Sasha Cohen's Programs

Realistic,
Yeah, the GS skies have been a little stormy lately:lol: Hoping the outlook is for sunny skies.

Kasey,
I don't think Sasha is "there" yet either, or at least she goes in and out of it. I thought her performance of "Romeo and Juliet" at one of the pro-ams (I forget which) was stunning and as I've said before, I thought a couple of her performances of either her SP, LP, or both during the GP series were in the "magic" zone. But obviously others were just good enough and Nationals was, at least for Cohen, very poor. I also think that since she's been the only US lady competing a lot this year, she's been under a lot more scrutiny than if Michelle, Sarah, and Ann Patrice had chosen or been able to compete more. But them's the breaks and ultimately, I think it's good for Cohen in terms of helping her get mentally tough.

Actually when she was younger I think she was more captivating as a performer. But I think this sometimes happens when someone is young and gifted: They don't know how high the stakes are yet and perform with a kind of beguiling innocence. It's getting through that period (if one has it) to that of a mature performer that can be so grueling for some. Paul Wylie didn't find it until he was 27. Oksana Bauil had it from about 16 to 18 then lost it. Kurt had it, lost it, then came back better than ever. I guess that's why it's so prized, because it's so rare.

Interesting comments.
Rgirl
 
R

realistic51

Guest
joesitz

It's okay, joesitz. I asked a question. I got a nice reply from rgrl181. I responded and got another nice reply. No big deal here! I just didn't understand all the "cat scratch fever". No problem!

Like I said...I'm in my closet waiting until the rain passes, toking on a cig and eatin' a chocolate bar. I'm pretty content! Just chillin'!!!:smokin:
 
A

Aria

Guest
Sasha's LA2002 SP

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>
Cynic said-

Long hold on shorts???????

I seem to recall Sasha winning the short at Nats last year. I can't remember (as I don't have it on tape) but in 2000 didn't she win the short at Nats as well?[/quote]
Cynic-
I saw the LA2002 SPs from the 10th row at Staples. Michelle won the LA2002 SP, not Sasha. Sasha's ice coverage/ use of the ice surface was among the worst of any of the senior ladies, including the lower ranked ones. She also seemed noticiably slower than the other top four in the SP. IMO, she was lucky to get second, since, IMO, Angela should have also been placed above Sasha in the SP.

However, since then, Sasha has improved on her speed and her ice coverage/ use of ice surface. But, she's still not up to Irina's usual level or Michelle when she's at her best.
 
S

sk8cynic

Guest
Re: Sasha's LA2002 SP

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It appears we are subtly continuing the personal battles of two posters. There are strong indications that a gang is forming to belittle one of our regular posters.

[/quote]

Joe,

Like Rgirl said in her post, I hardly think that she and I qualify as a gang. Perhaps I should not have lost my temper and "gone off" on a member here, but I don't have a track record of singling out people for "Special Treatment" (please show me another post from GS where I have 'ganged up' on or attacked anyone). About the closest I have come to that is the rather heated discussions in Off Topic, to which one could just as easily say that I am being ganged up on, though that's not what I'd like to think is happening. It's all in how you perceive it.

Like Rgirl and I have both said, we tried to handle a concern she and I both independently felt was developing. I got no response when I tried to resolve it privately, so I put the dirty laundry out in the public domain. My biggest error in judgement was doing that when I was steamed instead of waiting until I was calmer which was probably not the wisest of judgement calls, but as it turns out, I'm not the only one who picked up on the aforementioned negativity.

I don't like to see members make consistent negative posts about ANY skater - be it MK, Sasha, Sarah, or whoever. At my old 'home forum' I confronted a member that took advantage of every opportunity she could to bash MK/gush over Sasha. It's the little, consistent yet unwarranted digs that breed negativity over time and bring the whole forum down, which is the last thing I want to see here at GS. There are plenty of other forums we can all go to that allow that kind of behavior, but me? I'd rather have insightful, intelligent discussions and even disagreements than read over and over how much someone doesn't like a skater.

Again, my apologies for how this was handled.
 
C

CuteGreekGoddess

Guest
Re: Sasha's Programs

<span style="color:blue;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:x-small;"><strong>
aww if Abt has asthma that is so sad
he is such a good skater but with such low energy
at the end of a program :(
I sure hope he does not smoke </strong></span>
 
R

rgirl181

Guest
Re: Situation

Joe,
Sorry if my reply to Realistic went over the line. Like I said in my post to Realistic, I was quite ambivalent about posting it myself since I don't like that things happened this way and I didn't want to perpetuate the situation with more posts. OTOH, I thought it was appropriate to respond to Realistic's question. Sorry also to Eltamina if I extended this situation unnecessarily.

Just so you know, there's no "gang" here and no intention of promoting one. Cynic and I came to our conclusions independently; in fact I was thinking about contacting you or one of the other moderators about how I felt. When Cynic posted, I decided to post my feelings as well. Not blaming Cynic, BTW--not at all! It was my decision to go that route and my responsibility. All Windspirit did was state a brief agreement.

My apologies. There will be no more posts on the situation from me.
Rgirl
 
J

Joesitz

Guest
Re: Situation

It's just that we are now defending this sideline of a rather nice topic.

Not too long ago there was much ado about a new poster (not well inculcated in fs) who was nitpicking MK and apparently a gang of three including me were actually playing with him with abarage of innuendos. I enjoyed the tease and emailed the poster who said he also enjoyed the tease. One such tease was the fact that MK happened to win the Nats after his prediction of a loss.

The tease provoked two threads of mucho comments. This one too seems to be doing the same.

So let's get back to the original topic. Ms Cohen's program. I like it. I don't think it the greatest but it is fine for the competition. She is the favorite to win but the other two are so quiet and have not skated all that much. We must wait and see.

Joe
 
Top