Joannie Should have Got the Silver!

Ladskater · Jan 9, 2005

Well, here we go again. I thought the new COP judging system was supposed to assess a skater on the spot and reward them accordingly for the skate they do. After, Shizuka Arakawa 's poor long program, I can't believe she earned the silver medal. Joannie skated much better and should have received the silver. Shizuka had two falls. Hmm...maybe this new judging system is not so great after all.....

jesslily · Jan 9, 2005

This new system is still used by human being, and the judges still consider who you are and how long have you been around. Joannie is a lovely and powerful skater. I love her firebird program. But she has weak flip and lutz.

MKbeauty · Jan 9, 2005

re: COP

Shizuka was 4th in the LP. She only ended up with the silver because of her SP scores.

Ladskater · Jan 9, 2005

MKbeauty said:
Shizuka was 4th in the LP. She only ended up with the silver because of her SP scores.

Well, I knew that. It really does still come down to the short program. I just had to vent somewhere. Judging is still the same game - pretty much.

Vash01 · Jan 9, 2005

Ladskater said:
Well, I knew that. It really does still come down to the short program. I just had to vent somewhere. Judging is still the same game - pretty much.

I disagree in this case. Shizuka had scored considerably better than Joannie in the SP, and it helped her eventually. What I like about the COP is not just the place differential but the point differential- how much better one skater was than the other- which is included in the final outcome.

Joannie did make a couple of mistakes in her LP so it is not like she had a stellar skate and was not given enough points. The scores were fair. Actually I would have placed Miki Ando higher than Joannie.

chuckm · Jan 9, 2005

You have to remember that a competition is more than a FS. Shizuka significantly outscored Joannie in the SP, so I agree with Vash01 that the result was fair. While Shizuka skated poorly in the FS, Joannie's FS was not that good, either. Looking at the protocols, both completed only 3 clean triples.

I also agree that Miki should have been placed higher than Joannie in the FS. Miki was the only skater to do a clean FS, but somehow she had two solo 3Zs in her program instead of having one in combination, and she got no points for her second clean lutz. Her PCS scores should perhaps have been a notch higher, enough to move her into 2nd in the FS. However, even if Miki did get more points than Joannie, the end result would still have been the same, because Miki's SP had her in 5th place.

herios · Jan 9, 2005

jesslily said:
This new system is still used by human being, and the judges still consider who you are and how long have you been around. Joannie is a lovely and powerful skater. I love her firebird program. But she has weak flip and lutz.

It seems to me you don't know Joannie well enough, she has a weaker Lutz, but her Flip is considered her stongest jump, she usually has a sequence of 3's starting of a Flip (last year she combined it with 3toe, this year with a 3s).
At the GPF, she failed to deliver a clean Flip, that is unusual for her, but you know it could happen.
In the backstage interview she confessed she was nervous and that is not surprising, for her, this was a breakthrough season and to find yourself in a final flight together with 2 World Champions could be nervewracking.

Herios

Ladskater · Jan 10, 2005

Vash01 said:
I disagree in this case. Shizuka had scored considerably better than Joannie in the SP, and it helped her eventually. What I like about the COP is not just the place differential but the point differential- how much better one skater was than the other- which is included in the final outcome.

Joannie did make a couple of mistakes in her LP so it is not like she had a stellar skate and was not given enough points. The scores were fair. Actually I would have placed Miki Ando higher than Joannie.

Yes, but Joannie did not fall twice as Shizuka did. She also skated with more conviction and flow. I like Shizuka's skating, but I guess she did not have a good day. It happens. Miki Ando is a good jumper, but needs to work more on her artisitic elements. It seems that she is not feeling her music, she is just skating to it.

Joannie is still fairly new to the international skating scene and this was her first time out with "the big names" - she admitted her nerves got to her a bit. Still, I think she did very well and made an impression on the judges. I think she has a bright future. As Paul observed "Joannie showed great spirit and did not give up when she did make a mistake. She kept going and skated with real conviction." He also thinks she will be in the top flight at the Worlds - not on the podium this time, but worthy of being out there. Good for her. I am proud of her.

mzheng · Jan 10, 2005

Joannie was hold back by PCS scores. Had she got a little higher on PCS (deservedly so IMO) scores in her LP her winning margine in LP would've over come the lead SA' SP. Since the PCS scores in LP factors in more than it was in SP. (I believe it was 2:1?). Thus, IMO, if Joannie delivered a better LP her overall PCS scores should've been higher than her SP, and SA's PCS scores of LP should've been less than the one she got in her SP.

I always believe the 'bad' skating should've affect every aspect of the PCS score directly or in directly:
1) P/E: obvious without saying.
2) The Choreography: since the fall and/or someother mistakes would've afect the way the original choreography intended.
3) The trasition: the fall or fall out of jump made the transition after that element looks disjointed.
4) SS: Judged by the skill you show in competetion right? then the falling or mistake just show that you diddn't master the skill you choose to show in competetion.
5) Interpretation: means skater should skate with musical phrase, the mistake sure likely make her out of musical phrase.

chuckm · Jan 10, 2005

Joannie didn't skate a clean FS, mzheng, and her PCS scores did reflect that.

SkateFan4Life · Jan 10, 2005

Vash01 said:
I disagree in this case. Shizuka had scored considerably better than Joannie in the SP, and it helped her eventually. What I like about the COP is not just the place differential but the point differential- how much better one skater was than the other- which is included in the final outcome.

Joannie did make a couple of mistakes in her LP so it is not like she had a stellar skate and was not given enough points. The scores were fair. Actually I would have placed Miki Ando higher than Joannie.

I agree with you. Joannie is a fine skater, but she made several errors. And, frankly, I also would have placed Miki Ando higher than Joanie. Just my opinion, of course.

Vash01 · Jan 11, 2005

Ladskater said:
Yes, but Joannie did not fall twice as Shizuka did. She also skated with more conviction and flow. I like Shizuka's skating, but I guess she did not have a good day. It happens. Miki Ando is a good jumper, but needs to work more on her artisitic elements. It seems that she is not feeling her music, she is just skating to it.

Joannie is still fairly new to the international skating scene and this was her first time out with "the big names" - she admitted her nerves got to her a bit. Still, I think she did very well and made an impression on the judges. I think she has a bright future. As Paul observed "Joannie showed great spirit and did not give up when she did make a mistake. She kept going and skated with real conviction." He also thinks she will be in the top flight at the Worlds - not on the podium this time, but worthy of being out there. Good for her. I am proud of her.

Joannie placed second in the LP, even with 2 mistakes. Shizuka the reigning world champ placed 4th because she had a poor skate. Ando, who was 4th in the world in 2004, was placed lower than Joannie, even after a great skate. Your argument about Joannie not being rewarded adequately has no validity.

Joannie Should have Got the Silver!

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